Discipline

[Eamonn]

Seems that when it comes to discipline at the Troop level many of us have different ideas how to go about it.

I'm not in any way trying to say one way is better or worse or that I'm right.

Being brought up a Roman Catholic, I was held to believe that there are two types of sin. Venial Sin and moral sin.

Without going into a theological discussion about sin. As a child I seen these as big sins and little sins.

Also as a child when I first started going to confession I tried to keep count of how many times I'd sinned. Sadly I gave up counting -I must have been a rotten kid.

 

In the normal everyday workings of a Boy Scout Troop, most wrong doings can be put right with "The Look" or a simple "Hey Guys!"

While maybe I shouldn't admit it? I very often would allow the Scouts to sort things out for themselves. Only stepping in so as to avoid fisticuffs or a fight.

When something happened which was of a more serious nature.

There is at times a need to go to a next or higher level.

For me this next level has been finding the right time and place to have a heart to heart with the Scout. This works well with the Scout who seems to keep repeating the same bad behaviors and when these are along the lines of being disruptive. Letting him or her know that this is unacceptable and that he or she is being a pain in the neck does help clear the air and helps make me feel better.

Most times when we have had these little chats we have come up with a plan of action that helps prevent recurrences of the behavior. We start over with a clean slate. This clearing of the air allows the Scout to know what is what and stops me from building up any pent up feelings which could over time cloud my judgment.

I have been around Scouts for a long time and I have never had to deal with what I see as a serious fight. Most fights don't last very long and amount to little more than pushing and shoving with maybe one or two punches thrown.

I don't see two Lads fighting as being a hanging offense. As a rule, separating the pair of them, allowing them a time to cool down, finding out from each of them individually the reason why things got out of hand? Will result in some sort of plan for what happens next. Most of the time allowing them to calm down and see how silly it all was does work. But I have in the past called both sets of parents and asked them to pick up their son's and we have met later to deal with the situation.Most times they both benefit from having the time apart and are willing to forgive and forget.

Sadly there have been times when getting a parent involved has caused more problems. When this happens I'm happy to refer the parent to the Committee. A lot of times the complaint the parent has is not about what happened but more about how I managed the situation. I'm a big Lad and can take it.

For more serious matters like theft or for real cases of bullying I do involve the committee.

I wish I was able to say that I was just reporting my observations.

But this as a rule is not the case. I do tend to also offer my 2 cents as for what I think should be done or not done.

Again as a rule the committee goes along with my recommendations. So I might be guilty of passing the buck and having them play the part of the "Bad Cop"?

I don't or have never involved youth members (The PLC) in specific matters of discipline.

I have and think it's a good idea for them to be responsible for coming up with management plans that have to do with discipline. Things like when lights out will be or what time we will get up. When something like this is seen not to be working, they will look at the problem.

Most of the Scouts I have known over the years seem to want to go out of their way to please me or if not me they have an adult who they like and can talk with and too. Often if a Scout is messing up I will talk with him or her or have that other adult have a word.

Working with older Sea Scout age youth, it does seem that many of these youth are having problems at home and do feel the pressure from school. A lot of times when they are acting up it is a call for attention. While I'm very aware that I'm not a professional counselor, I'm happy to listen and very often do offer my take on the situation.

A lot of the time it is just due to them growing up and sometimes parents not wanting them to grow as fast? But with teenage suicide at epidemic levels making sure that they don't plan to harm themselves or others is always a good idea.

While it might seem that telling their parents some of what you might find out is breaking the trust that the youth place on you. In the long run telling parents about any not so good stuff is always the best plan of action.

Eamonn.

 

 

[mikecummings157]

Agree 100%. A lot of folks on this board can learn from your example.

[eagle90]

Eamonn -

 

If I remember my catechism correctly, it is venial and MORTAL sin. Can't figure out what a moral sin would be. LOL!

[Eamonn]

Eagle 90

You are of course right.

Thinking maybe I need to retake them classes?

Or do a better job of reading what I'm posting?

 

Strange thing is that Sister Mary Matthew who taught me catechism classes and math, used the rhythm method.

She used a ruler to beat out a rhythm on a desk for the multiplication tables (Once two is two, two twos are four.) And much the same beat for the catechism.

Needless to say when we needed discipline, she found another use for the ruler.

Eamonn.

[ETD129-AW Chpt Adv]

Eamonn, Brother, I couldn't agree with you more.

Absolutely nothing wrong with admitting it. What do our guys learn if we adults are ALWAYS stepping in and solving their problems OUR WAY?

 

The 2nd summer camp I went too as a Scoutmaster of the ripe old age of 36, I ran into my old Scoutmaster from 20 year prior. I ask for a little piece of advice on how to resolve conflicts and how to deal with a bully. He put his arms around my shoulder as we walked and said "sometime you just have to have a talk with the SPL, and tell him you're going to be taking a long walk in the woods away from camp and that if any problems arise he's going to have to deal with it, but you don't want any blood-shed, or not much anyway." I've used that, and it has worked more times than it has failed, and I don't ask questions, it was THEIR problem and THEY solved it. We have got to allow our guys to solve their problems, they'll be adults soon and won't have us or their parents around.

 

Ooh, and you are more that right about parents/adults causing more problems.

 

I heard this line from another old time scouter, in dealing with overly protective, smothering parents. "I've been doing this for 20+ years, and haven't lost a scout yet, have brought some home with scrapes and bruises, and have made a few trips to the hospital, but haven't lost one. If you're allow me and get out of my way, I'll do what I can to turn him into a fine responsible young man, OR if you prefer you can leave him attached to your nipple for the rest of your life."

 

Most will consider this extreme, you do have to step in and seperate a fight. And no, it is most certainly not a hanging offense. Listen, listen and then allow the guys to discover a solution, and that means more listening. They usually can find and agreed solution and then be friends afterwards. Seperating them and solving it YOUR way, leaves open unresolved ends in their minds. It's got to be something they resolve.

 

The committee and parents are obvioulsy needed in resolving major problems such as theft, assault or intential property damage. Boys will be boys and this does mean the occasionally fight, shoving and pushing and cursing and teasing (not to be confused with harassment.) Most of these do not warrant having a major case of it.

 

As you may can tell, I am not a fan of the "kinder, gentler scouting"