punishment...?

[SMT224]

On a recent camping trip, a Scout in our Troop stole an iPod from another Scout. He apparently took it when he found it in their tent. The owner of the iPod told me he couldn't find his iPod, and we looked in his tent and in the car he was riding in, but we couldn't find it. After the camping trip, the thief tried to sell an iPod he "found" to another Scout, and despite several denials, the truth came out pretty quickly when confronted by both parents.

 

As Scoutmaster, I am now considering how best to deal with this, as it did happen on a Troop outing by a Scout who was bound by the Scout Law. I'm wondering how best to impose a "correction" on this Scout to both ensure there is a clear consequence for his action, as well as to help him learn not to even think about doing something similar in the future.

 

What have other SM's done in similar circumstances?

 

Thanks!

[Gold Winger]

This is one of those incredibly complex situations. If you catch a kid stealing at school, you can suspend him and that is punishment because he eventually has to come back to school. If you susupend a kid from Scouts he'll probably just quit and you've lost any opportunity to help him.

 

First, sit down and have a talk with him. Ask him why he took the iPod. Ask him if he'd like to have had his iPod taken. Ask him if he realizes that no one will trust him for a long time.

 

The answers that you get are probably going to be "I dunno." He may well say that he wanted the iPod but wouldn't want to have his stolen. Basic criminal behavior, I can take yours but no one had better touch mine.

 

Ask him if he has an idea of what his punishment should be.

[Beavah]

Hi SMT224, sorry yeh have to deal with this, eh?

 

What do you think of this lad otherwise? What do the boys think of this lad otherwise? Is he a lad who is regularly a behavioral challenge?

 

How strong are your youth leaders? How old is the boy in question? The victim?

 

One thing to consider is talking privately to the lad's patrol leader and your SPL/ASPL. Your youth leaders see this boy when adults aren't watching, eh? They have information and insight that you need, and as leaders, they should be involved in this discussion in some way.

 

But before yeh go into that discussion, I think yeh start with these premises to put yourself in da right frame of mind:

 

1) Theft is one of da surest ways to destroy a patrol, breaking the trust between boys.

 

2) Every single boy in your troop knows exactly what happened, and is waiting and watching expectantly to see if you care about them. They all want to know if da SM will walk the walk of all his fancy words about being "Trustworthy."

 

3) This is pretty brazen on the lad's part, eh? I'd wager dollars to donuts that this is not the first time the lad has stolen stuff of value. Just the first time he's been caught. And every other boy knows that, too.

 

So what do you feel is appropriate as a lesson for all the boys in your troop? If a coworker of yours had stolen from several people in and out of the office and was finally caught in one theft by the boss, what would you expect as an outcome? There's some really good research on school violence out there which talks about how when someone gets caught in something like this (theft/bullying/etc.) and the adults do not respond vigorously, the good kids feel betrayed. It substantially increases the likelihood of future violence.

 

I think if this is da culmination of other behavior problems that you have been unsuccessful at addressing as a unit, yeh meet with the lad and tell him he has lost the right to be a scout in your unit.

 

Otherwise, yeh have to be awfully close to that, while perhaps leaving a small window for earning his way back into the troop in a way other boys respect. Genuine, meaningful, contrition on the lad's part, for sure. Letter of apology or public admission and apology. Suspension for a meaningful period is probably not optional. Probation for a time. Unusually hard work to "pay back" to the other boy and troop (I'd think about get a hard-work job, buying the lad he stole from some expensive iPod accessory as recompense... and then a suggestion to continue in the job until he can buy himself an iPod, eh? Learn the value of work?).

 

If the lad is not truly, tearfully contrite, and da parents of the boy aren't 110% in your corner, I would not have a lad back. Every other boy and family is watching and forming an opinion, and you'll do nothing but damage to your troop if they don't feel justice was done. For the boy's sake as well, eh? If he's going to continue in your troop, all of his buddies and their parents have to truly feel "justice was served" or he will always be left out and suspect. As it is, every missing item in da troop for the next couple of years is likely to be blamed on him, eh?

 

That's your baseline. Then you modify it slightly here and there dependin' on the lad and individual circumstances. Do you have strong youth leaders this boy respects? Perhaps a withering peer counseling/debrief session would send a strong message. Are their weird extenuating circumstances? Perhaps you lighten up just a touch.

 

Yah, good luck with it, mate. As hard as it is, if yeh handle this sort of thing well in the boys' eyes, it will pay enormous positive dividends for your troop - increase trust and loyalty in particular, and empower the good lads.

 

Beavah

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eamonn]

I know this is going to sound like passing the buck.

But this is not something that the SM should be dealing with.

This is something best left to the Troop Committee.

 

Chances are that they will follow whatever recommendation you make. But they have the final word.

 

A lot of what I think the Beavah might have posted seems to make good sense.

But along the lines of

"They all want to know if da SM will walk the walk of all his fancy words about being "Trustworthy."

Allowing the Troop Committee to deal with this and do their job, removes you from this problem.

 

If I were a member of the committee.

My decision would be based on my knowledge of the Lad.

Scouting for me is all about relationships.

Has this theft made any future relationship impossible?

Have the bonds of trust been broken to such an extent that repairing them are no longer possible?

 

I'm not that keen on the word "Punishment".

If we really are looking to see the Lad punished or pay for his crime, I would suggest we call the police and allow the courts to deal with this as they know how.

I like the word "Correction".

Finding a way that will help this Lad from making the same mistake again.

What this might be? Is the $64,000 question.

The return of the i-pod is a given. (In as good a shape as it was)

An apology is also a given.

I think I'd go for good heart to heart chat with the Lad.

I'd let him know that he has let me down, his family down and most of all he has let himself down.

I'd tell him that it is going to take some time for him to get back up.

Some people might call this a period of Probation. While maybe it is? I just don't like coming off sounding like some kind of legal expert. (Which I'm not.)

Eamonn.

[Liz]

I like what the others have posted so far. I only have one small thing to add.

 

I think you need to try to discover whether this theft is a symptom of a larger problem.

 

Some examples:

 

Is the boy tired of Scouts and is maybe looking for a way to get "kicked" out?

 

Does the boy have a particular problem with the other boy he stole from?

 

Has the boy gotten into drugs and is "needing" money to fund the habit?

 

Is the boy going through some kind of trauma at home (divorce, someone laid off work, abuse, anything) that he might be "acting out" as a result of?

 

What is the boy's home life like in general? What kind of behavior do his parents model for him? Is this the kind of thing where they'll be mad that he stole, or mad that he was dumb enough to try to resell the item within the troop and therefore get caught? (Some of the worst behavior problems I've seen within our troop came from a boy -- who eventually dropped out -- whose father openly disobeyed the law, hedged on his taxes, etc.. and bragged that it doesn't matter unless you get caught)

 

I don't think these questions necessarily will provide the answer as to how to deal with the problem, but I also don't think you can really choose the *best* way to handle it without trying to answer the questions first.

 

-Liz(This message has been edited by liz)

[kraut-60]

As Beavah suggested, talking with the PL/ASPL/SPL would garner more information regarding this Scout. I feel this is an instance where the PLC should be the authority in what outcome the scout in question receives as a "correction" or reprimand.

 

Having the PLC decide this issue will surely run afoul of the hover parents if there are any in the unit this occurred, however I feel it will back up the boy-led premise we should be practicing...no shunting to the troop committee for a decision...no calling the DE for a ruling...let the Scouts who ARE the patrol and troop members decide the outcome....And why was an i-Pod in a tent during a scout camp-out? Normally any electronic entertainment items should be LOCKED in a car/truck until the troop/patrol is heading on the drive home.

[scottteng]

I second the motion that this should go to the troop committee. This is beyond a SM's call of duty and the committee is better equipped to call all the parties in and make a determination of what to do. We do this all the time, severe bad behavior will land you in front of the committee the most dreaded punishment is to being sentenced to having a parent accompany you to all meetings and trips. Most of the bad actors are ones that chafe under strict discipline at home. Kind of like PK's at Christian schools.

[FireKat]

Just a thought to kick around as a possibility;

How about teaching all the boys about the judicial system by have them hold court with a jury of his peers? All the boys seem to already know what transpired. Let them have a say in the punishment. The committe can over rule if needed(many times the kids can be a bit too harsh).  It might be a good chance to teach all.

[Gold Winger]

"We find the defendant not gill-cup!"

 

 

[kraut-60]

I am adamant that this should be decided by the PLC, not the troop committee...by deferring this to the troop committee, the scouts will see the TC as the authority within the troop,not the SPL and the PLC.

 

The TC can advise the PLC, provided the PLC seeks their counsel, and the SM should be the primary advisor to the PLC in this matter as it is the SM who is the primary direct contact leader...running this matter through the TC will allow the scouts to see that the SM is not really the adult unit leader, and his/her authority may not be seriously taken as the final word in matters where the PLC will be seeking guidance.

 

The TC may have a member or two at any given troop/patrol outing, but usually the SM and/or an ASM will normally be present, and having the authority residing in a committee who likely won't be present when a decision is needed will simlpy result in a shrug of the shoulders and "we'll have to WAIT and ask the troop committee"...Whats wrong with this picture? NO leadership development through situation/problem solving...NO boy-led examples...No opportunity for the Scouts to LEARN how to handle discipline with-in their ranks...Nope!...simply defer the issue to the adults.

 

Check the embroidered letters in red over the right shirt pocket,does it say "Adult Scouts of America"? We should treat every issue that comes up as a chance for our Scouts to develop and practice skills with regard to leadership and character development and that discipline does NOT mean punishment and if a disciplinary measure is called for, then have the Scouts who are leading call for it... the adults should ONLY be keeping an eye on the proceedings and advising or giving direction when needed.

[Nike]

If this is the first time you've had this serious a problem with the boy, let the boy leadership handle it. However, a BoR with the CC, AC, COR, and a few others is well called for.

 

If this is a subsequent bad act, its time for the Youth Leadership and SM to advise the Committee, but for the Committee to determine punishment after a BoR.

 

If you've given this Scout myriad other chances to get his act together, suspension followed by probation is warranted.

[Bob White]

A Scoutmaster's role is to train junior leaders not punish others people childern. Leave the the boy in hands ofof his parents and the unit committee to determine what should be done. Why allow it to distract you from the youth who want to be scouts?

[evmori]

Stealing! Not exactly living the Scout Law & Oath in his everyday life!

 

Eamonn is correct. This is an issue for the Troop committee to deal with. As the Scoutmaster, I would recommend the Scout be suspended from the unit for 60 days & then upon his return he and his parents have a sit down with the committee & the Scoutmaster.

 

This should not be tolerated.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[SMT224]

Thanks for all the thoughts and advice.

 

This is not the first time this kid has had issues. I've had to talk to him several times about unScout-like behavior in the past, and have taken his Tote-n-Chip away twice. Part of the complication is that he is one of the few black kids we have in a mostly white Troop. He is very sensitive about racial issues, and has several times told me that "it's a black thing, and you don't understand" when I have asked him to remove non-Scout uniform clothing items. He once commented that a board game we were playing on a camping trip that had black & white pieces was "racist".

 

The first thing I want to do is sit down and have a talk with him and try to understand why he did it. However, he was not at the last Troop meeting, so not sure when I will see him next. He tends to show up for a few meetings then be AWOL for several months. Needless to say, his advancement has been quite slow. I expect I will involve the PLC, and perhaps the TC, but first and foremost want to ensure the process and consequences are transparent and fair.

 

 

[Eamonn]

The Guide to Safe Scouting states:

"Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it.

 

The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members.

 

The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit.

 

If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action."

 

I really do not think a matter like this should be left in the hands of the PLC.

As the guide states it is a matter for the committee and as such is really out of your hands.

While it is often said that the guide is only a guide. I do feel that you would be better off dealing with this by the book.

It not only safeguards you and your position as the SM,it also serves to safeguard the CO from any comeback.

The last thing you or the CO need is any talk of you or the Troop being racist or picking on this lad because of his race.

If you leave it to a full committee (with the COR in attendance) you have covered your tail and the tail of the CO).

If there is any come back you can respond "We did it by the book!"

Eamonn.