First Class Scout.

[Eamonn]

I really don't want to reopen the First Class in X- Number of months dialog.

But....

1/ What do you expect a Scout who is First Class to be able to do? (Yes I can read the requirements, but having met the requirements do you expect a Scout to be able to use these skills?)

2/ When and where do the Scouts in the Troop you serve get to use these skills?

Eamonn.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Our scouts have been completing requirements yet are lacking in skills. Changes in our troop are working to improve that now. One method I am working through the SPL to incorporate into the troop are patrol skill competitions. We are working on our knot skills, and we have a monthly contest, "The Scout Knot Challenge." This pits patrols against one another collectively tying a square knot, bowline, sheet bend, clove hitch, taut-line hitch, and two-half hitches in the fastest time. When all scouts improve their skills, we will employ a second recognition for individual time on all 6 knots. We also have started a tent pitching competition, taking the best time from each patrol for pitching a tent (one small benefit of using standard troop tents). These competitions teach teamwork, and leadership as well as actual skills. These times and "records" will be posted in the scout hut for all to see.

I am looking for ideas for patrols for other measurable scout skill competitions. I am hoping this will also boost patrol pride. (sorry Eamonn, I am not trying to hijack your post)

To more directly answer your first question, I expect (loosly) for a First Class scout to be able to use the skills listed in the T, 2 and 1 ranks.  We don't and will never retest in a BoR, which is why I want to work with fun competitions to improve the scout's ability to utilize and demonstrate these skills.

[gcnphkr]

Yes, they should be able to use the skills they learned in T-2-1. They use them on campouts, games, SOR and teaching younger scouts.

 

Some take more effort than others. First aid does not happen on it's own (hopefully at least). But make a contest out of it and they will use it.

 

Next month the troop is having a "Survivor" campout. The patrols will start out with their sleeping bags and water bottle. They will acquire things like food, fire and shelter during the course of the weekend. Periodically scouts will be "injured" and will need to be correctly treated. Most of the outdoor skills will be a part of the game.

[asm 411]

Oddly enough I have been thinking about this a lot lately.

 

When I look over the requirements and think about if Scout John knows how to do a head bandage and the answer comes up no it is time to find an opportunity. It is up to me to be sure that Scout gets the opportunity fisrt to assist teaching that skill with a skilled Scout to a new Scout or Webelos. Then to follow that up with having Scout John to teach that skill to a scout by himself.

 

I believe that very few Scouts actually retain a skill when they "learn" it. I believe they don't really learn it until they have to teach it. It is good thing that there is a constant stream of Webelos and New Scouts in which the older Scouts can learn ... err teach ... these skills to.

 

I have no problem asking any Scout First Class and above to teach a younger Scout a skill in the foundation ranks. When the Scout says "I don't remember how to do that." I say "Since you knew how to do it once a review of the Handbook is all it should take."

[raisinemright]

We're putting a new emphasis on Scout Skills too. The kids are OK, but not great at many of them.

 

Last year, we tried something. We had a 10X20 dining fly that was rarely used. The one time the scouts assembled it, it was done wrong and never fixed for the campout.

 

We brought it into the gym, dumped it on the floor and walked away. After a few false starts, they finally took a look at the directions and got it assembled.

 

Since then, we've used it on several trips and it goes up quickly and correctly. Only takes about 15 minutes.

 

That brings forth the necessity of training, reinforcing and then transferring the knowledge for the boys to train and reinforce these skills.

 

 

[Nike]

OMG! Boys read directions!! That's the most important thing they probably learned.

 

Scout skills definitely need to be practiced and re-enforced. Unfortunately, some troops don't do a good job at making it fun. (Not pointing fingers.)

[Gunny2862]

Pointing finger at self. Guilty. Don't make situations for the Scouts to practice skills enough.

 

But, on the other hand...

Do teach EDGE. And think it's a good method.

Do believe, even though I sign off before then(due to program requirements) that they don't know it until they see one, do one, teach one. And even then review is necessary.

I mean, I can tie a Sheepshank but probably not on the first try, by the second most likely and definitely on the third. A Monkey fist, OTH, is just hard to forget once you learn how.

The rest of the Scout knots I get enough practice on and is probably the thing we do best (sad, I know). But we use the knots ALL of the time.

First aid, things you hope you aren't using, you have to plan to practice.

 

Will start incorporating games to provide some of the review. Little beats peer pressure to practice so your patrol doesn't get shown up.

 

I expect that it isn't learn, test, review, recognize, and forget.

I expect that Any/Every Scout should be able to do anything they've had signed off no matter how many times he's advanced since then.

[Stosh]

The speed of advancement in my unit varies among a variety of different dynamics. Those patrols with older boys tend to have pre-FC scouts advance faster than those who have only a post-FC scout as a PL. Then it also varies between scouts. A NSP patrol may have one boy just getting his TF while another in the patrol is wrapping up FC. Every patrol is different, every PL is different, and every scout is different. As long as the boys are comfortable with their progress, we don't make a big issue of advancement.

 

As far as practice is concerned, the boys working in the patrols find out those that don't advance, don't hold up their end of the work. If a boy can't cook, he ends up on KP a lot, it's a great incentive to learn to cook. If he doesn't do well in other skills and is behind, the boys work at getting them up to speed. It's all in the hands of the patrols to figure it out as to what works best for them.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[BulldogBlitz]

"

Next month the troop is having a "Survivor" campout. The patrols will start out with their sleeping bags and water bottle. They will acquire things like food, fire and shelter during the course of the weekend. Periodically scouts will be "injured" and will need to be correctly treated. Most of the outdoor skills will be a part of the game. "

 

this sounds so very similar to the camporees that i remember as a scout in the mid 80s.

 

since boys can't be retested (or so i've read somewhere here), are they really supposed to have any skills at first class other than those most directly related to the rank requirements of first class? i know i'd expect more than i should. i would expect them to have a full compliment of basic troop camping skills... just getting their first taste of patrol leadership.

[scottteng]

The problem is lack of repetitive reinforcement of the skills specified. A taut line hitch was used extensively on every campout not many years ago. None of my troop's current equipment requires one of them. Even the stake out lines have those little metal or plastic thing-a-ma-jigs that simplify the process for both us and for the scouts. Should they learn it sure! When they do not remember it a couple of years later who's fault is it? The real question is when in a situation where they had to tie that knot or something close would they at least do something. How much of what you learned in school do you remember? Oh I have an Algebra test here for you how much is that again? The real question is do the requirements need to be updated again? My confession is I cannot tie a taut line hitch without consulting a scout book mainly because I never use it.

[evmori]

I would expect a 1st Class Scout to be ready to assume a leadership position in the unit. I would also expect a 1st Class Scout to be able to teach the younger Scouts in the unit what he has learned. I would also expect a 1st Class Scout to be an example the younger Scouts could look up to and a Scout the SPL could count on.

[Lisabob]

I'll answer that 2nd question first. My son's troop, for all the things I sometimes don't care for in terms of adult association method, patrol method, and advancement method, at least camps a lot. They camp almost every month of the year. Now yes much of it is the dreaded "car camping" but at least they are outdoors. So there are plenty of chances to practice most of the basic T-2-1 skills.

 

As for the first question...Short answer: a 1st Class scout should be able to be reasonably comfortable outdoors under "normal" conditions, so that he can have fun and be safe doing other stuff while he's out there.

 

Longer answer to follow.

 

On the spot and without prompting or review:

I would expect a typical 1C scout to be able to select a site and put up his tent without help, to cook (beyond ramen noodles, hot dogs, and pop tarts!) and clean up for himself or for a small group, to hike without major discomfort, to know what at least some common local flora and fauna look like (poisonous ones in particular), read a map and know how to use a compass, at least in a basic manner. I'd expect basic competence with "hurry cases" and with minor 1st Aid. I'd expect a scout to know enough about 1st Aid to know when he's in over his head too. A 1st Class Scout should have enough experience that he knows how to dress appropriately for the weather and stay reasonably warm (or cool) and dry on a camp out in "normal" local conditions.

 

Perhaps with a short refresher:

I would expect he'd be able to use woods tools in a safe and appropriate manner. I add the "refresher" qualifier mainly because many troops do the type of car camping where these skills really aren't all that necessary most of the time. Axe yards might be set up so the kids get some practice using the tools but dinner isn't usually dependent on chopping a supply of fire wood, when you are cooking on a coleman stove.

 

With more review:

I'd expect him to be able to use the lashings & knots he was supposed to have learned along the T-2-1 trail. Reality for many troops is that these do not get used on a regular basis and so I would not automatically expect a random 1C scout who wandered over to the campfire to know them cold.

 

In terms of attitude/temperament/comportment:

Knowledge of the Scout Oath and Law. A 1C scout should know about and respect the symbols of our country (flag, for example). He should know that service to others is important, and that his behavior (good and bad) has a real impact on other people. He may or may not be able to fully articulate how service and behavior fit into an understanding of character though. More often than not I'd expect him to be sympathetic to (sometimes annoying) younger/less experienced scouts who may be struggling to learn the skills he already has. He should be beginning to offer assistance to others without needing to be prompted. He should have learned how to adjust to (moderately) changing circumstance, improvise or do without when a non-essential item was forgotten, and put up with minor discomforts that go with being outside from time to time, all without too much moaning and groaning. He should have some sort of feeling for the beauty of the natural world and also the camaraderie that comes from sitting around a fire together, though again it might be something he can't clearly articulate.

 

What I wouldn't expect:

Crack outdoor skills good enough to qualify him as a wilderness guide. Judgment befitting an adult with years/decades more experience and perspective. Loads of leadership skills or initiative. Unwavering patience and stoicism. A deeper appreciation for, and ability to articulate, the meaning of the Scout Oath and Law in real-life terms. Sitting still for more than 5 minutes at a time. (these things will all come with time and maturity, one hopes, but in my book, 1st Class is merely the starting point for developing these other aspects.)

 

 

[NeilLup]

"since boys can't be retested (or so i've read somewhere here)"

 

I'm sorry, BulldogBlitz. That's an understandable reading of what you've read here and elsewhere but it's simply incorrect.

 

You can retest all you wish. It is simply that you cannot deny advancement based on a retest of a requirement which the Scout has already passed.

 

But advancement is only one of the eight methods. Here are some of the things that you can do (not saying they are good ideas, but they would be totally acceptable.)

 

a) You can retest in connection with selection and retention of youth leadership status ( "To be eligible to be a Patrol Leader or Troop Instructor or whatever, you need to demonstrate that you have these basic skills. And you need to demonstrate them, within reason, whenever asked by the SPL or other leaders. If you cannot demonstrate them after a small amount of practice, you must leave your leadership position.)

 

b) You can retest in connection with participation in an outdoor activity. ("To go on this campout, you need to be able to show that you have these skills. If you can't show that, you can't go on the campout.")

 

c) In theory, you could retest in connection with continuing membership. ("Everybody in our Troop must have these skills. If you don't, you can't continue as a member of our Troop.")

 

So it absolutely is possible and permitted to retest.

[SSScout]

Just finished watching "Castaway" with Tom Hanks. Talk about camp skills.

 

Part of the problem is the NEED for the skills.

Tents come with preattached ropes and tensioner do-hickeys. No need for tautline hitch or double half hitches.

Plastic and metal tent pegs and poles included. Axe and hatchet skills?

All the poles for the dining tarp are automatic. Lashing, knots? Naw...

Cooking comes in a precooked package (Troop leadership encourges Scouts to use "precooked" burgers and sausage etc. to avoid underdone meat problems).

Cell phones and GMRS radio. Why know morse code or wig wag or semiphore?

I don't need to ID Poison Ivy, SM will keep us away...

Piezo electric clickers and Lucifers (matches). Flint and steel?

Gas stoves alleviate need for regular camp fire building skills.

 

Yeah, yeah, we can't burn up the forests by too many campfires (LNT not withstaning), but still...

 

All this leads to the idea that the GAME part of Scouting must become more important, the encouragement of the FUN part of OWNING the skill. Being GOOD at something that other boys may not know anything about.

 

Howbout a Castaway Camporee? Think Mr. Hanks or Mr. Zemeckis would come?

 

[evmori]

The NEED for skills?

 

Just because precooked meals cane be bought, doesn't mean they have to be. I've eaten my share of "Moo" burgers & I can tell you when the boys do that once, it doesn't happen again!

 

Cell phones & GPS? Don't own a GPS & never plan to buy one! How hard is it to read a map?

 

Your SM won't always be around to protect you from poison ivy! Bad excuse!

 

The tarps my unit had came with 6 aluminum poles per tarp (not including the center ridge pole) and a bag of rope!

 

We always made cutting fire wood a fun chore, not a task!

 

Sometimes you NEED to create the NEED!