Eagle Scout Age

[cookiemonster]

There is a serious amount of discussion within the hierarchy of the troop to which my son belongs. They DISCOURAGE boys from advancing at too rapid a pace. All of their sons got their eagle reqs completed just under the wire. The scouts that have followed are continuing this pattern. Our son is 14.5 and has completed his eagle project and over 60 merit badges (his goal is to get them all). I think he has missed two meetings since joining scouts and they meet weekly even throughout the summer. He has held many leadership positions within scouts and other groups. He's an all around good kid. The problem: he's getting crap from the leaders that he's not old enough. As his parents we are encouraging him to follow his dream and set an example for the younger scouts and to set a new standard within the troop. We'd appreciate others thoughts on this and how my son can deal with these naysayers.

[Gold Winger]

I'm of the opinion that Scouts who earn their Eagles at younger ages don't get as much out of the experience as someone who is older does. Be that as it may, the rules are the rules. If he's met the requirements and the SM doesn't believe that he's not living as a Scout, the SM has an obligation to send the boy up for a BOR.

 

You son should ask the SM, point blank for a SM conference for Eagle. If the SM refuses, ask for the reasons in writing. Take that to the District Advancement Chair.

[cookiemonster]

I don't think it has anything to do with our son personally. There is another younger scout trying to move along and they are discouraging him in every way. I've heard "it's not a race" more times than I can count. I'm not sure how quickly my son will ask for a SM conference. It's up to him and frankly I think he's a little nervous because he's not expecting encouragement. We went to a council sponsored meeting for scouts nearing eagle. The leaders of this meeting were proudly saying that they were eagles at 12 and 13 years of age. They also said that "the sooner you become an eagle the sooner you become a resource for your troop". The eagle palm system is also designed so that in order to receive all of the possible palms you would have to become an eagle the day before your 13th birthday and have every SM conference exactly at 3 month intervals. It sounds to me like another troop would be praising his initiative. He's confused and frankly so am I.

[Gold Winger]

Well, it isn't a race which is the way that many parent treat it and they drive their sons' to hit benchmarks. You can't drive until you are Eagle, is a common one. I know the son of a professional Scouter who was denied his license until he made Eagle.

 

On the other hand, if the Scout is motivated and the parents are just there as support, go for it. It is all about him and is really up to him.

 

 

[packsaddle]

I have also observed this incorrect 'sentiment'. Fortunately I managed to beat it down in this unit. I did this by asking the leaders who felt this way to write clear, concise, universal additional requirements that ALL scouts in the unit will be required to meet. They couldn't.

So here's a way to approach this: Ask them to show you the official requirements and rules where there is an age limitation. Ask them why they would stifle a boy's initiative in this manner? Ask them to consult with the DE or council about their additional requirements.

 

If all else fails, transfer your enthusiastic son to a more deserving unit.

[anarchist]

cookiemonster,

 

forgive the long post.

 

congrats on a swell sounding young man...

 

over a rootbeer with the SM (your son should buy) have him chat about what the troop goals are, in what he perceives as discouragement of middle aged scouts attaining eagle.

 

perhaps he will get some troop insite and perhaps he will also get a so called "green light".

 

Personally speaking, I would rather keep a boy active and in scouting until he ages out (without an eagle), than have him push for eagle and leave at 15 or 16...

 

More to the point, we tell most of our boys that they should be "outdoor competent", self confident and ready to take the lead on any trek at any time in order to be ready for eagle...and no we are not adding to the requirements...we are simply asking the boys to rise to a challenge, to a level of growth and maturity before looking at the SM and saying "I'm ready." ( I am famous for asking eagle candidates if they would like to spend a week in the woods following the lead of an exact copy of themselves?!)

 

sorta like asking a scout if he thinks he deserves a rank during a BoR...we challenge our boys to develop skill, leadership and a sense of maturity before the final step.

 

The number of times I have had our young scouts (first class and star) who have come to me after staffing a camp or cub scout/webelos event or day camp and brag that they handled "stuff" (skills) that Eagle scouts "in charge" could not is truly amazing (and sad).

 

Our current SM tells me (frequently) how his son (when a young scout)repeatedly reported back to him after helping with council events,(his mom is a district type-very involved) that he had pulled some "clueless" eagle scout's butt out of a problem situation that the eagle did not have the outdoor skills to accomplish. His son still appreciates the skill training he was "forced" to learn and use...

 

Perhaps it is time for your son to slow down, just a bit, to smell the roses and work towards undermining the leaderships "crap" by making himself indispensable...doing more than his "share" at campouts and troop gatherings, taking on special projects, helping plan and execute treks. I recall watching a good kid with some significant learning/behavior disabliities- simply bowl over our leadership by always finding something helpful to do and pitching in! He went from "that kid they all wanted to use as a canoe anchor" to "gosh "joey" has really grown up this year!" Sometimes honey does work better than vinegar...

 

And, perhaps I am misreading here, but you seem a bit too "close" to the situation for your lads own good...back off a bit...(please, no offense meant), take a long deep breath and look for a leader in the troop to mentor and advocate for your son...sometimes as parents we just take things the wrong way. Sometimes we don't "hear what is being communicated". We miss things.

 

In our troop most of the successful scouts are not advocated for or mentored by their own parents...we know first hand that our kids, generally speaking, seem to take advise and help better and easier from another adult than from "mom or dad". I have "adopted" numerous SM's and ASMs kids and many with no show parents...and my boys were helped by other dads...so I know it can work.

 

good luck and remember scouting is a game with a purpose...IT should be fun! If we take the fun out of it...it becomes work...and your son has years of that ahead...

anarchist

[BadenP]

I am just curious is your boy earning these badges because he is enjoying the process or is mom and dad pushing him too far too fast?

Forgive me but your posts make it sound like this is you wanting the award more than he does, maybe he is listening to his leaders about pacing himself and it sounds like he has been put through the merit badge mill grinder. Scouting is not all about how many badges he earns but what type of leader and well grounded person he becomes. Stop the pushing, he has plenty of time to make Eagle, let him enjoy his scouting experience instead.

[CalicoPenn]

You say your son has completed his Eagle Scout project - that means the Scoutmaster and the Committee knows that your son was working on his Eagle Scout project. Since the Scoutmaster and Committee knows that your son was working on his Eagle Scout project because all the paperwork for approval to start the Eagle Scout project was completed, and all the paperwork indicating the project is finished has been completed, then the Troop is expecting to be giving your son his Board of Review anytime now.

 

Your son should be asking the Scoutmaster for his Scoutmaster's Conference, and not worry about what some of the other "leaders" are saying.

 

Seems to me that if the Troop were that concerned about the age issue, they would have found some way to delay your son's start on the Eagle Scout project.

 

Calico

[Packhound]

I think that Calico is right on target. If he has met the Merit Badge requirements. Made it through his Leadership project (I just go home from a Roundtable where the focus was Life to Eagle.) by getting the proper approvals from the benefiting organization, SM, TC, and District and/or Council Advancement or Eagle Committee, BEFORE beginning the actual work on the project and then executing it properly. AND has completed six months of service in an elected or appointed leadership position should ask for a SM Conference and Troop BOR. (And if he has completed the requirements leading to the SM Conference and BOR, he deserves a proper Conference and BOR.)

 

There is no age requirement for Eagle, I for one earned the Eagle shortly after my 13th birthday. I then had almost 5 years to give back to the troop and learn more leadership skills through involvement in the OA, not to mention that I have been in Scouting ever since (except for a period when I was in my 30's and early 40's).

 

In my troop we let boys advance at their own pace. Most boys over the last several years have completed the Eagle between 17-18. However, three of us leaders Eagled before age 16, earned multiple Palms, and are Wood Badgers.(We're just a bunch of underachievers. lol)(This message has been edited by Packhound)

[Beavah]

Yah, cookiemonster, welcome to da forums.

 

I think anarchist has the right approach here. As a parent, this isn't your fight. Your job is to be a good example to your son by supporting the coach. I'm sure you've seen all kinds of parent "bad actors" at sporting events, insisting their son get more playing time, arguin' with da referees and all that. You don't want to inadvertently become the Scouting version of that.

 

Your son's troop has gone all the way through an Eagle project with your lad, eh? So it seems like they're lettin' him move pretty fast. And your son is no slouch, I reckon. I think he and they can work it out.

 

If they're framin' the question more generally about what the Eagle in the troop should be, that's a good discussion for all troops to have, eh? Some folks believe Eagle should be a high school award, earned as a late teen, which represents da character, maturity, and skill of a young adult. That kind of Eagle Scout award has value for college resumes and such, eh? Other folks believe Eagle should be a challenge a lad should tackle right away, and pursue and finish in middle school, representin' an ambitious youngster. Not really valuable for college resumes, but it teaches a pattern of goal-setting that will serve a boy well in high school.

 

Yah, I think folks in a troop should have a clear vision for what an Eagle Scout, our highest award, should be in their troop's program. It's a vision they should communicate well to everyone, and promote. I've seen some excellent troops where all Eagles were earned at age 16-17, and they were mature, inspiring young men. I've seen some excellent troops where Eagles tended to be age 13-14, and they were bright, hardworking boys. (Of course, I've seen some 13-14 year old Eagles who were da product of badge mills, and 17-year-old deathbed jerks on occasion, but we'll leave them out, eh?) Point is, it's hard to inspire a 16-17 year old with a middle school award, eh? And very hard for a 13-14 year old to really deserve an award suitable for a high-achieving young adult. A program should decide which it wants.

 

Practically speakin', troops can set age requirements for positions of responsibility, so a troop can certainly "force" Eagle to be a high school award, eh? I think it's better to design the whole program so it fits with the troop's values and goals, though.

 

As far as earnin' all da badges goes, it's interestin'. Wouldn't discourage it. But I've never been very impressed with it either. Mile wide and an inch deep. I personally am more impressed with lads who delve deeply into a few things and really become experienced at 'em than boys who have a lot of experiences.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[cookiemonster]

Just to clear things up - I am on the troop committee and this is a regular topic of discussion. I am not there just as an overbearing parent. If this topic comes up I share my views but I seem to be alone on this within the committee. One of them proudly tells me that her son got his project done 4 days before his 18th birthday. I try to instill the "be prepared" philosophy, not the "wait til the last minute" one.

 

I just wanted to hear the opinions of others, both pro and con, since I seem to be the only one on the committee that appears to want to let nature take its course and let the scout decide at what rate he advances.

[gwd-scouter]

For what it's worth: My older son earned his Eagle at 14 1/2. He is now almost 22. In is own opinion, he feels his younger brother (15 1/2) is getting more out of the journey to Eagle than he did. Older son was singularly focused on earning Eagle. Never missed a meeting or campout. Knew all the Scout skills. Held the appropriate PORs (although back in those days PORs in our Troop were mostly a patch on the sleeve without much substance). Also back in those days of our Troop, the other Scouts that earned Eagle were also around 15 years old. Interestingly, all but two (my son and one other Scout) were sons of the SM, ASMs or CC.

 

Looking back, he feels he rushed through the process without really enjoying the ride. It was more of an academic pursuit for him. Watching his younger brother, a Life Scout now for over two years, he sees an enthusiastic Scout, fully enjoying the experience, using his knowledge to really help younger guys and his Troop.

 

We have three guys currently working toward Eagle. One in 11th grade and two in 10th. A culture change in our Troop? Perhaps. All three are friends and very active with the Troop, only missing outings if they conflict with band competitions. They are truly leaders in our Troop and enjoying the journey.

 

Welcome to the forums cookiemonster, and good luck to your son.

[TwoXForr]

My suggestion, for what it is worth have your boy go away and be a CIT at a Council camp for the summer, show the Troop his maturity level, and have him experience BSA in another format.

 

Also have him work on the Enviroment and Religous Awards, get a 50 Miler Patch or have him work towards Philmont or Order of the Arrow projects.

 

There is a lot more to Scouting then just Merit Badges.

 

Have him have some fun.

[OldGreyEagle]

As has been commented on here, the rules are the rules. If a scout has the ambition, talent and skill to complete requirements, then they must have that ambition, talent and skill. If the requirements for Eagle are done, and these requirements build over time, approved by adults in the troop I do not see how that can say the youth is not ready for Eagle. So, what does the Scoutmaster/Committee say, He is not Eagle material, but he lacks a certain Je ne sais quoi?

 

When they do know what they lack, they can verbalize it, until then let the process roll

[SR540Beaver]

Hopefully our good mods can merge these three threads into one. The one that was left open was edited by the poster to remove the original post.

 

Cookie, don't get me wrong as I am not arguing in favor of extra age requirements for Eagle. I will however play devil's advocate based on the many conversations I have heard Scouters have concerning this issue. Obviously, earning Eagle is NOT the goal of the BSA. It is a small number of boys who actually do earn it. Usually the concern stems from a boy or more usually from parents who push their son to treat rank requirements as a punch list with a major prize at the end. The quicker and younger you can do it, the more impressive. It is more than one boy who has left the program after earning Eagle. Those who earn it at a young age at the urging of their parents usually leave the program to tackle the next impressive award to go on their resume for getting in a premium university. To many Scouters, Eagle is believed to be something special. They want the scout who earns it to be able to fully appreciate what it means. To them, that appreciation is gained thru wisdom, experience, maturity and service that is gained over time.......hence age. A boy of 16 or 17 with 5 or 6 years in the program is going to understand the signifigance of his accomplishment much more than a 13 year old with 2 years in the program. Are all 16 or 17 year olds mature? Heck no. I know some 50 year olds who are immature and don't "get it". But they are the exception rather than the rule. A 13 year old Eagle who "gets it" is also the exception rahter than the rule.

 

Do I have anything against a 14.5 year old scout earning Eagle. No. Do I understand why some people do? Yes. Do I think a boy should wait until right before his 18th birthday to Eagle? No. My son is 15.5 and needs Family Life and E Prep as well as his Eagle Project to earn Eagle. His goal has always been to earn it before he turns 16. Why? Because he took to heart all of those pleas from the deathbed Eagles who warned at their Eagle COH not to wait until they were 17.5 to get serious. He saw guys hit 16, get a car and a job disappear from scouting only to return a year and a half later and bust their butts trying to finish. He feels like he has too much invested to throw it away. He "gets it".

 

Personally, I think "older" Eagles understand and appreciate their Eagle more. While I might counsel a boy to slow down and enjoy the journey, I wouldn't stand in his way if he is getting there at a younger age.