Touch a Scout?

[ASM59]

Barry implies in a recent post that it may not be appropriate to touch a Scout or to give a "shoulder hug" to a Scout who just got hurt to comfort him. Nevertheless he says that he does it anyway always in site of others.

 

Now, I have been told many times in the past that it is NEVER appropriate to touch a Scout for any reason. My training in Youth Ministry says that a touch is very effective and seems to contradict the admonition to not touch a Scout. Now certainly there are inappropriate touches and thats not what were talking about here. What I want to know is, Is it written anywhere that a leader is never allowed to touch a Scout for any reason? I always assumed it was, but imagine my surprise when I went to re-take my Scoutmaster Fundamentals training two weeks ago and I saw the Scoutmaster in the video put his hand on the shoulder of the Scout he was talking to and even pat a Scout on the back as he told him he did a good job. So perhaps it really is OK to give a Scout a pat on the back or put your hand on his shoulder when youre speaking to him

 

ASM59

 

[Chug]

This is quite a hot topic here in the UK. Mrs Chug is a Beaver Leader (6-8yrs) in theory she isn't supposed to hug them, but if one of them hurts themself and is crying there eyes out she believes you would have to be a very cold individual not to. I'm an Explorer Leader (14-18yrs) including a number of girls, now it wouldn't be appropriate to hug them but I see no problem in patting them on the back or placing a hand on their shoulder or arm.

 

It would be impossible to be a leader if you were never allowed to touch a Scout anywhere for any reason, I would have had many dead Scouts if this was the case.

[evmori]

Not allowed to touch? Hmmm. Don't think I've ever read that in any BSA publication? Would someone please give a reference or post the actual verbiage from an official BSA publication?

 

Thanks

[Stosh]

Hmmm, I use touch all the time with my scouts. Whenever I wish to say something specifically to them and want them to really pay attention, I put my hand on their forearm, shoulder, or maybe "adjust" their neckerchief slide. During uniform inspections I may button a flap on their uniform or spin their epilette seam down as I comment on a patch that might not be exactly right, just something to have them notice the importance of the moment.

 

I began this process a number of years ago when I had a problem youth in my organization. After a few moments of the first meeting, he was up sitting next to me as a "time out" kinda thing and everytime he tried to act up, as I talked, would just put my hand on his forearm and he'd quiet down. I never had to say a word to him directly. After that meeting, he never caused problems in the group no matter where he sat and on occasion would purposely come sit next to me.

 

If one doesn't want to actually touch a scout, one can always move into their personal space and talk quietly to them. That works almost as well but more often than not they back away. A touch does the same thing but they don't back away.

 

I have found that this works both ways and the boys will often use the touch technique with me or PL's with their discipline problem boys in their patrols. This touch is never a grab or restrain in any fashion and the boy should be able to move away from it if he wishes, but if done effectively, they never do.

 

I use this technique in all age groups and with both male and female group members.

 

If touch is forbidden in scouting, Scout Vespers is going to take on a whole new dynamic in our council.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Gunny2862]

Don't think this restriction exists.

 

I also don't think it should.

 

Sure we have to avoid "bad" situations and ensure that our intentions and actions aren't misunderstood but hopefully the amount of time we are spending with the youth and their parents earn us a little bit of trust. Along with two deep leadership principles and thus not ever being alone with a Scout who isn't our own child.

 

 

[Lisabob]

The training I've been to has emphasized that there should be no "inappropriate touching." I've never been told there can be no contact at all. If your training really did repeatedly include that, then I think your district's trainers have gone a bit off the deep end and you should ask them to clarify exactly where the regs say that. I do think, in this day and age, it makes sense to ensure that whatever you do is within eye sight of other people though.

 

 

[evmori]

I agree 100% with no inappropriate touching. Should never happen. Sounds like this has been construed to no touching at all!

[DYB-Mike]

Folks,

 

I agree with whats been said about appropriate touching: the pat on the back for a job well done or the hug to the despondent scout. So long as its done in an appropriate setting: in front of others. Others have spoke of the benefits of these actions and I agree.

 

Wouldnt absolutely no touching eliminate the scout handshake?

 

In (Catholic) Church Ive appropriately touched younger people through offering the Sign of Peace with a handshake or touch on the arm, all done in full view of the congregation.

 

Heres a touching anecdote:

 

The Pack, along with several other leaders and parents and myself, was recently marching in a parade in our town. One of my Tigers (not my son) was wearing a 1930s Cub Scout uniform, complete with the period belt that is similar to the web belt of today. The uniform was a little big but he still looked sharp. Along the parade route the belt came loose (funny, almost 70 years later and they still havent figure out how to keep that buckle from loosening). He was having a hard time getting it tight again so when the parade stopped for a few moments I went to give him a hand. Mind you, we are in the middle of our main street with hundreds of people looking on. Our Chairperson came running up to me and said, you cant do that. I was a little taken aback but I stepped away and my wife, who happened to be marching with us, helped the boy make the adjustment. The Chairperson and I have talked about the incident a few times since then. Although she has given me the impression that perhaps her reaction was a little extreme given the setting, she still felt uncomfortable with my attempt to help the boy with his belt buckle.

 

Would I have done the same thing if I were alone with the boy? I think not, but of course its a moot point since I wouldnt have put myself in the position of being alone with the boy in the first place!

 

YIS,

Mike

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, I would have to see who would be 100% with inappropriate touching, but that is another matter I am sure

 

As a shooting sports director I would have a hard time coaching Shotgun shooting without touching, or rifle or Archery.

 

I remember a very homesick scout a few summercamps ago. He was off by himself sobbing. I asked him if I could sit down next to him and he told me how much he missed his mother. I told him it was ok to miss her and to be sure he told her he loved her when he got back on Saturday. Then I picked a huge daddy long leg spider off his shoulder, showed it to him and said, "But we dont have to tell her about these" . He let out a huge guffaw, hugged me, quite unexpectedly and took off laughing. He had a great week.

 

Never occured to be to me to turn myself in as a G2SS violation

[croushorn]

Hey DYB - ask your CC if she'd be happier if the kid's drawers fell to his ankles right there in the street? WOW, that's as stupid as holding up the kids on their way to the port-o-pot because they didn't have TWO adults escorting them.... jeeze... my line to those idiots: "go find something constructive to do... "

[DYB-Mike]

Whoa, Snoring Bear! I appreciate that you see the incident the way I do, but our Chairperson is a really great scouter and is usually pretty open-minded about things.

 

What bothers me is not so much that she got nervous when I went to fix the boys belt, but the fact that she, and all of us, has to be so paranoid over what are really mundane actions. Heck, there have been times at campgrounds when Ive really had to go, walked into the latrine, saw one lone boy taking care of business, turned on my heel, and left. Despite my mundane intention of simply answering the call of nature, Id rather the risk of wet britches than having to deal with the furor over being caught alone with a boy!

 

I guess its like airline safety. We know the threat is there and we need to take precautions, but I still cant help grumbling when I have to take off my shoes.

 

YIS,

Mike

 

 

[FScouter]

Yeah, there's far too much paranoia. I don't fear any furor over being "caught" alone with a boy because simply being alone is harmless. The furor would be over molesting a boy, and then it matters not if it was alone or in the middle of a parade route.

[jr56]

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if you are in front of dozens of witnesses, you can be accused for any sort of touching. Anytime you touch a scout, you do so at your own risk.

[DYB-Mike]

Understood, FScouter, getting caught alone with a boy is no crime, but unfortunately theres the concept of perception. Innocent situations can be twisted into something theyre not by equally innocent misunderstandings or by over-zealous or vindictive people.

 

Im trying not to be paranoid, just prudent.

 

YIS,

Mike

 

[croushorn]

Sorry DYB - but we gotta use some reason here. I can 'kind of' see her concern, but how can someone really think you would do something inappropriate in the middle of a parade?

We're on the same page, if they want to accuse me, let them. I have to trust more reasonable heads will prevail. Maybe Ill eat my words one of these days, but if so then theres something much bigger wrong here...