sending boys home

[Gunny2862]

You know, I think BobWhite's quote...

 

"from the Scoutmaster Handbook:

"A boy who continually disrupts meetings or whose actions endanger himself or others during Scouting activities should be sent home."

 

Seems pretty clear doesn't it. "

 

...has nailed it.

A Scout who had a bad attitude, refused to correct it, and was disruptive, and/or endangered himself or others would probably make my grade for a trip home.

But note that this puts him on the wrong end of several of the things I would look at about whether or not he should go home.

[skeptic]

Had to do it mid week last year for the first time in more than 30 cmaps. The really sad thing was that not only did the boy have a Jekyll and Hyde personality that he played people with, but the mother (no father involved) refused to come for him. We arranged a ride with two adults who were going back, and told the mom to please be waiting, even though it was late. She informed me that she might or might not be there and that he had been a #%^& since he was 2 and we could turn him over to the authorities. Obviously, she is part of the boy's problem; but he has learned to play things also. Home schooled due to problems, dictates to mom often (she just allows it), on all kinds of meds which mom says he can decide to take or not, etc.

He came back at the end of summer, but I had to finally simply tell the mother he was no longer welcome, as he caused more issues and started harrassing other scouts by phone, including one's mother. The whole thing ruined camp for me, and has made me wonder if I am still able to do this. Maybe I am burnt out, or maybe the kids have more issues today with which I am not familiar and able to cope well. Still, I hope to continue.

This year's camp was great, which really helps. And, there is always a glimmer of light that may have gotten through to the boy. Years ago, I gave a scout obviously on something at a meeting, a choice. He chose to leave. A number of years later, he appeared working behing a counter, recognized me and told me his more current story of programs and struggle to get clean. More importantly, he made it, and thanked me for giving him something to refer to in the struggle. We never know when it might all of a sudden kick in.

[Twocubdad]

Gee, sounds like dropping the kid off with Social Services may have been the best thing you could have done for him. I always tell parents that if they don't come for their kids when we call that we'll turn them over to the sheriff's department. I never considered that someone would call my bluff!In five years as a day camp director I sent one kid home for splashing "water" out of the urinals onto the other boys and trying to touch them inappropriately.

As a SM, I sent one boy home for shooting younger kids with a slingshot (drawing blood) and another for sucker punching and giving another kid a bloody nose "just for fun." Both on the same camp out -- must have been something in the bug juice.

There have been things I've learned after the fact for which I would have sent boys home. Instead they received suspensions. Generally, if you do something which warrants being sent home from a camp out, it'sprobably going to result in a suspension, too.

Our troop's behavior guidelines clearly explain what behavior is expected and lists things specifically prohibited. It also explains that we don't punish Scouts -- that's the parent's prerogative. If a boy can't behave like a Scout, they don't get to participate in Scout activities. That may be for the rest of the weekend, a month or more, or on a permanent basis. The guys generally know that the consequencesstart with a stern lecture and proceed through a formal, sit-down conference (usually with your parent), a hearing with the troop committee, probation, varying length of suspension and ultimately expulsion.

We don't have fixed consequences for anything. Some nearby troops have very specific consequences which resemblefederal sentencing guidelines. We try to always fit the punishment to the crime and to take the circumstances and the boy into account. As a result, some of the "sentences" can be convoluted -- suspension from all troop activities, followed by suspension from camp outs, followed by probation, etc. Yes, we put it all in a letter to the Scout. In those cases are usually the result of behavior which has put the Scout or other in harm's way. Our purpose in trying to ease the boy back into the troop is to give us the opportunity to observe him and make sure the dangerous behaviorisn't repeated.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[kb6jra]

Never had to send a kid home, try to keep each boy in my sights for any arguments. I attended the 2005 NSJ while my troop went to camp. When I got home 75% of the boys that went called and said they were going to quit, all for being bullied by the acting SPL and his appointed assistant.

 

Well, after a lengthy investigation ( had to go to each kids house and interview them) I recommended to the Committee that the boys be removed from the troop. That was one of the best things we could have done.

 

Why weren't the boys sent home from camp? Because their fathers happened to be the leaders that took them to camp and they didn't see anything wrong with a little fun; punching, harassing, nurple twisting (to the point of deep bruising and bleeding) and skinny dipping (only the SPL and his asst).

 

Maybe it's all about perspective...eh?

[Bob White]

Wouldn't you rather spend more time training junior leaders than to have to keep every scout in your sights at all times.

[FScouter]

Why did the Scouts elect a bully to be their SPL?

[John-in-KC]

The same reason we're over halfway to annointing President Messiah? Sometimes kids make bad choices... We say we want them to learn by failure. Sounds like they might have learned.

[FScouter]

Failure can be part of learning, but I don't think we strive for failure so there can be a learning experience.

 

I was thinking more that he was not elected at all, so that might be a lesson for someone else. What is an "acting SPL" anyway. A troop either has one or it doesn't.

 

[FireKat]

"acting SPL" is what happens at an outing when the SPL (and possibly the ASPL) are unable to attend. A bit like a mayor-protem.

[evmori]

Why did the Scouts elect a bully to be their SPL?

 

Could be the Scouts didn't know he was a bully when they elected him! Power does funny things to some people FScouter.

[FScouter]

That would be the assistant SPL. The assistant is appointed by the SPL shortly after the SPL is elected, and serves along side the SPL throughout his term of office. When the SPL cannot attend a meeting, campout, or whatever, he should first sit down with his assistant (and SM) and go over the plan.

[Tokala]

I have only sent Scouts home once. I was the SM for the Council JLT program. One Scout decided to coax a Scout from another patrol into his patrol campsite. He then had a buddy help him tie him up under a picnic table. Two other Scouts were present, watched and did nothing to stop or report the behavior. Shortly afterwards a staff member discovered what had transpired. I sent all 4 kids home.

 

As a SM of a troop I took a very large group to Wyoming for our high adventure trip. When we returned home, I discovered that one Scout spent the last day of the trip shoplifting in his uniform. Didn't send him home because we discovered his actions afterwards, but he was suspended from the troop for 6 months and asked to do a set amount of community service hours. He decided to drop out of Scouting.

[Crew21_Adv]

Lisabob,

 

 

Greetings!

 

What does it take? I don't have a good answer. What is my personal line? I consider myself to be extremely tolerant and forgiving, but I do have my boundaries and they may eventually be crossed.

 

I have only had two boys over many years. One was a discipline problem, the other was just a simple inconvenience.

 

One, the SPL, whom was elected by the older boys, not by the new scout patrol. He was a bully, he fought, and he cursed, through alot of Scoutmaster counseling he was a "Yes man". Always saying what the Troop Committee wanted to hear, but doing another thing around his fellow Scouts.

 

I nearly called his parents to pick him up during one weekend camporee, it was still Friday night and he argued with me for the third time. We were about 150 miles from home. If I knew how much trouble he was going to be, I would not have taken him at all. I later learned of more trouble he caused during that camporee.

 

I later found out after his tenure as SPL, on a couple of meeting nights, we had thought he was sick and absent, and that was the cause of him missing the Troop meeting. Later to learn that his father had came to pick him up on those two evenings. Months later, I learned that when he was SPL, he skipped the Troop meeting to go to the movies, while his parents thought he was attending our Troop meeting. If I had made aware at the time. I would have ceased his tenure as SPL.

 

Beyond those mistakes, he made one too many dangerous errors in judgment. I recommended to a well attended Troop Committee meeting that his membership should be revoked (per the G2SS) as a danger to the other Scouts. The committee decided to give him his fourth maybe fifth warning.

 

The Troop Committee gave him opportunity after opportunity. This was the only Scout, in years, that I ever thought that his family should have researched another youth program.

 

A different event. During NYLT we had one young NYLT Youth Staffer. His expectations was fun, and nothing but fun. I usually present Scouting as educational fun, or working fun. He suffered from mysterious stomach aches and headaches when it was time for work, but was fully recovered when any of the fun activities occurred. On educational day three, the adult staffers agreed and we filled out the medical paperwork and called his family to come retrieve him.

 

I have never threw my hands up and said, "that's it, you're going home now". In nearly 30 years, I should have once or twice, but my tolerance was a little more enduring than my common sense or the respect for the other Scouts affected.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[kb6jra]

"Why did the Scouts elect a bully to be their SPL?" -FScouter

 

When our Troop attends summer camp, and the older youth cannot attend for whatever reason (this particular year the SPL and ASPL were both in summer school) we appoint an SPL for the week. This young man was SPL previously and knew the job. He was not a bully at that time, but the assistant he appointed was when he was not at scout meetings. These two seemed to feed off of each other all week, and the ASM that was put in charge, who happened to be the father of one of the bullies, thought it was just boys being boys, even after the entire troop approached him and asked that the SPL be replaced with another boy they all wanted in his place (sort of a mutiny).

 

"Wouldn't you rather spend more time training junior leaders than to have to keep every scout in your sights at all times" - BobWhite

 

Always, that's why this boy had been through Troop and Council level leadership training (JLT at that time, NYLT now) before taking the job of SPL. He was well qualified as far as training is concerned, his issues were with his judgment and attitude, and as we know with kids these can change depending on the company they keep.

 

 

[SMT224]

Several years ago, we had two very disruptive brothers in our Troop who did not want to be in Scouting. Their parents were very active in the Troop, and forced the boys to be in Scouting. The result was two kids who did all they could to disrupt meetings and activities. I was a very new and very unexperienced Scoutmaster, and bought into the parental excuses for the boys behavior. When I talked to them, they were the best Scouts ever and told me exactly what I wanted to hear. There were several occasions I would now not tolerate and send both the boys and their father home. Unfortunately, I did tolerate it and the acting out and bad behavior became worse until we caught them committing a severe act of vandalism that cost the Troop nearly $1000 in damages. The boys were steadfast in their denials despite being caught red-handed. Their parents supported their innocence and refused to pay for any of the damage. Before they could be expelled, they all quit the Troop. In retrospect, and as a lesson hard learned, I should have called them out for the minor stuff before it got out of control. Sending a Scout home sends the Scout a message that behavior outside of the Scout Law will not be tolerated. Not dealing with it lets them know they can do more of the same.