Lying

[jgeller93]

on a recent trip my troop went on a tour of a light house. at the top some of the boys spat on to the ground below. an assistant scoutmaster who was waiting at the base of the lighthouse had seen spit land on a rock, and asked the boys who had spit.In a minute one boy confessed, after wich another scoutmaster arrived and repeated the question. all of the other boys who had spit confessed a minute after his arrival. the boys who spit (everybody except one boy) are being accused for lying to the first Assistant scoutmaster. Because lying is a serious problem, the scoutmaster and assistants are having difficulty in arriving at a punishment, can anyone sugjest a suitable one?

[Gold Winger]

I don't think that anybody lied. It may have taken a moment but everyone owned up. If you punish them now for "lying" and not the spitting, the next time an issue comes up, no one will fess up.

[genewick4]

Just my opinion but I don't believe that we should be in the "punishment" business with scouts, that is for the Judicial system. Use the incident as a lesson in the importance of telling the truth ( I am sure the scouts got a lecture that day anyways) and then let it go.

 

On a lighter note, it is tough for boys to resist spitting off of anything that is high or crosses anything, kid won't spit all day long, cross a small foot bridge and "spit", why I don't know, it's in the male DNA I think. Putting boys up in a lighthouse and them getting in trouble for spitting seems to be "entrapment"

 

(Let me add this caveat, if the boys were spitting on or at people, that is a different story, that's not funny, it's malicious. Then your problem is the act, not the lying)

[John-in-KC]

Welcome to the Forums.

 

I'm in pretty strong agreement with GW. Scoutmaster Conferences about the wonderful stuff carried in our spittle might be appropriate, but punishment?

 

A quiet word of apology off to the side to the ASM, and an understanding that accepting responsibility for one's actions is a good thing should see the end of this.

 

Themes? Safety and "bad news is not Mom's chili, it doesn't improve with age."

[evmori]

I agree with GW on this. It doesn't seem like anyone lied therefore nothing should be done.

[scottteng]

I am in agreement with the majority so far no lying a little avoiding but all fessed up in the end. The next time we did first aid practice though I would have someone (one of the spitters) research and do a talk about disease transmission via saliva. Severe punishments for minor lies need to be rethought. What kind of punishment would you dole out for: "Gee Miss ASM you sure look nice this morning" when the truth is she looks like the north end of a south bound mule. Plus who is brave enough to sit as the judge.

[Eagledad]

>>Plus who is brave enough to sit as the judge.

[Kahuna]

I won't offer an opinion on punishment, I think the subject was covered pretty well above. However, I will make the observation that in my troops, teaching boys NOT to spit EVER was always a priority. One of the most annoying male habits of all and very easy to control. We just called them on it every time and basically had no spitting. Must admit the chance to spit off a lighthouse would be mighty tempting to any boy!

[Eagledad]

>> Must admit the chance to spit off a lighthouse would be mighty tempting to any boy

[Stosh]

There are certain things that boys/guys are always going to do. While spitting off a cliff is reasonably benign, I had to deal with the issue of peeing in the fire on previous outings. I don't confront the boys and "entrap" them into lying. I simply went over and looked in the fire pit and said, "I sure am glad I'm not eating breakfast out of that tomorrow morning," and walked away. It would seem that the rest of the patrol members dealt with the situation on their own. About a half hour later I saw one of the members of the patrol having put out the fire, cleaning out everything in the pit and scattering it in the woods. Probably took him about an hour to clean things up. I don't always think it's the job of the SM to deal with every little thing that comes along. Part of leadership is dealing with discipline on their own, let the boys learn.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Gold Winger]

" Severe punishments for minor lies need to be rethought. What kind of punishment would you dole out for: "Gee Miss ASM you sure look nice this morning" when the truth is she looks like the north end of a south bound mule. Plus who is brave enough to sit as the judge"

 

From the original story, no one "lied," they just took a couple minutes to decide to step up and fess up.

 

A white lie is something different, it is defined as a lie to avoid hurting someone feelings. See the example above. Other example abound . . . "Boy this is good cake grandma!" "Gee, I love what you've done with your hair." "No dear, those pants don't make your butt look big."

 

Without white lies, society may well grind to a halt. Marriages would break up. Most men would never get a date (we know that our gut is tiny so if you tell us otherwise it is out of jealousy).

[Stosh]

Personally I don't accept lying in any form and the promotion of white lies to preserve society doesn't do much for the trustworthy part of the Scout Law. Integrity training can go a long ways to maintain trust and honesty so as to not have to resort to lies to maintain relationships.

 

Stosh

[Gold Winger]

So when your mother-in-law says, "how do like the sweater that I knitted for you?" you give her an honest answer and say, "it's as ugly as sin"? Very commendable.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

You were lucky it was only spit. I remember a really funny picture of a bunch of young men, cough cough, whizzing off of a cliff.

 

Your focused on the lie when the focus should be on the inappropriate action by the group.

 

 

[FScouter]

The sweater fits perfectly and will surely keep me warm. You put a lot effort into knitting it. I love you Mom.