speaking about consequences

[BrentAllen]

I guess I have a different interpretation about being in Scouting, in general. Scouting is not just something you do one night a week. It is a lifestyle, a committment, and this doesn't just apply when you are in uniform or on a Scouting event. In this situation, I look at those boys as representing both our Troop and our CO, and this is not an acceptable way of acting. This is one time I would jump down some throats and mention the word "stupidity" more than just a few times. I would explain there was no way I was going to allow an article to end up in the paper saying "John Doe, member of Boy Scout Troop 494, was killed while hood surfing." The boys could start using their brains and acting accordingly, or they could find another Troop. We are only talking about saving some kids' lives here, so I wouldn't be too concerned with over-reacting.

[kb6jra]

Scary Stuff Lisa,

 

I would tend to "admonish" the boys caught in the act aside from the rest of the troop, and like Beavah said, have them present to the troop about the dangers of thier actions.

 

The CoH isn't the best place for this IMO, maybe a special Troop Meeting should be called, this will not only give a perfect opportunity, but give it the importance the subject deserves.

 

Good luck, I know I would have chewed on a few young souls if I'd been the SM who's house they just left.

[CalicoPenn]

I just don't understand the desire to call an "all hands meeting" as it were, with a lecture by a police officer or emergency services worker over this. It insults the parents (the unit would be basically telling the parents "You aren't doing a good enough job telling your kids that this stuff is stupid and so you need to hear this lecture too and get with it") and is going to draw attention to the lads who did this (and likely in ways you don't expect - among their peers, and younger scouts, it's far less likely that they will be shamed and and seen as foolish and more likely that they will be looked at as being brave and will be heroes).

 

Private Scoutmaster's conferences with the participants, and the nifty SM Minute that SSScout suggested, will get the message across quite well.

[Bob White]

Because they might not know of the activity. Would you rather they learn about it after their son is dead or injured, or before.

 

Again, we help educate scouts and parents about responsible behavior and dangerous behavior in other areas, why not this one. Ignoring it, or ignoring the seriousness of it is hardly seems the responsible thing to do. But it is choice of each unit as to whether they want to address it or how to address it. There certainly is nothing in the BSA program that requires that a unit take action or not, since it happened outside the sphere of scouting.(This message has been edited by BoB White)

[John-in-KC]

CP,

 

I've said elsewhere here at the Forum and I will say it again: Driving safety is a hot button issue with me.

 

The best political cartoonist none of you will ever know was two HS classes ahead of me. He was killed in June, 1972. He was a passenger in a pickup truck on the Ventura Freeway in the San Fernando Valley. He was riding in the bed, unprotected/unbelted. Truck had an accident. He went flying. Death was instantaneous they told us.

 

This involved members of the PLC. They are the example setters. It must be addressed, and addressed with absolute urgency. Parents must know what happened. Youth must know this is absolutely unacceptable. I don't know about your jurisdiction, in mine had there been something happen, the driver probably would be facing 5 years in prison.

 

Does that help explain my position of: All hands, youth and parents. If I was in this unit, I'd fall on my sword for that. ???

 

 

[evmori]

Well, since it happened outside the sphere of Scouting I guess we should just do nothing!

[Gunny2862]

I think that there isn't a one size fits all answer here. But it does need to be addressed.

 

For some Scouts a subtle word will bring out plenty of embarrassment about how stupid they were.

 

For some Scouts the melon exhibition - make sure you include one in a helmet for our soon-to-be-cyclists, at $4-5.00 a gallon we'll be seeing more Scouts on bikes, Scooters and Motorcycles soon- will be enough.

As a former -I didn't own a car for two years- cyclist, the idea that they need to protect themselves on a bike is CRUCIAL. I've been hit by three cars, two whose drivers were so focused on their own agenda that they didn't even look and one jerk who ran me off the road on purpose. I've trashed four helmets - two from accidents and two from age/deterioration. And it doesn't take 30 miles per hour to kill. It only takes 8 lbs. of torsional pressure at the correct angle on the neck to break it. When you have a car/ body interaction you get a whole lot of mass acting on very little mass which leads to a lot of energy transfer.

 

For some Scouts the only way they'll stop is with the full court press of BobWhites solution and the melon exhibit and the post meeting parental lecture.(Although I personally believe in keeping CoH's as positive events and would rather call a special all-parents/all Scouts meeting)

 

People get all up in arms about gun control - when gun safety is what we should look at, but even those numbers pale(greatly)in comparison to traffic deaths. This IS a serious issue.

 

I know that as a parent if the Scouting leadership knew this was going on and failed to address it - I would be a VERY grumpy character after the Policeman, Patrolman, whatever showed up later on my doorstep to awake me from my ignorance.

 

As for it being a non-Scouting issue. I think that there is no such thing for a Scout. However, even if you do, the fact that they were on their way home from a PLC meeting would still keep it in the realm of Scouting.

 

Lisabob, I'm glad small bob made it home okay. Wish I could have eavesdropped on your discussion though...everyone can use a few pointers now and then.

[Eamonn]

I'm not really sure I understand this talk about "outside the sphere of Scouting".

One of the reasons I'm involved in Scouting is because I like kids.

I hate to see any kid hurt or harmed.

While some Scouting activities do involve an element of risk and maybe even danger, we the adults do try and make Scouting as safe as possible.

 

As a parent I would hope that if anyone seen my son participating in something like this, they wouldn't hesitate to pick up the phone and tell me.

 

OJ will be twenty next month, but he is still on my insurance and would very quickly be enjoying being a pedestrian.

 

If I seen anyone doing this, you can bet I would be on my cell phone calling the police then and there.

 

Within Scouting? Were I to find out about this after the fact. I feel sure that the people involved and myself would be having a real heart to heart. The Scouts that I know and have worked with know and are aware that I do really care for them.

While of course I would point out how very stupid they have been, I would also point out that they are not living up to the Oath that they took as Scouts.

Of course I'm very thankful that no one did get hurt or harmed.

My big hope would be that their parents would take the action that they think is appropriate and necessary.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

My point on the event happening outside the sphere of scouting is that it is not behaviour that the troop or scouting has authority over, that does not mean that they cannot have influence over it.

 

If you see a scout outside of a scouting event not wearing a seat belt you have no control over that. You have influence in that you can counsel him about it, but you cannot control that action outside of the the program you lead.

 

During a scout activity you have the ability to control that situation and insure that the scout wears a set belt or not travel with the troop.

 

One is outside the sphere of scouting, one is inside the sphere of scouting.

 

Why just let one scout's parents know about the dangers of hood surfing? Would you only discuss the dangers of drugs with scouts you thought used drugs?

[John-in-KC]

Outside the sphere of Scouting? Horse manure, and it stinks

 

Lisabob, in her follow-on post, wrote in part:

 

And actually they were on their way home from the troop PLC at the SM's house

 

It may not have been in the context of a Tour, but it certainly was within the sphere, imo.

 

That the SPL was part of it makes matters worse. He should be the one all youth look up to and model themselves after.

 

My thoughts.

[Bob White]

John

Lisabob wrote "While not at a scouting function..."

So we all agree then that this was AFTER the meeting and not during the scouting event?

 

 

[evmori]

I'm with on this John! If someone would have been seriously hurt & this made the news you can guarantee that "they were on the way home for a BSA PLC meeting" would have been included in the story. And again, Scouting would be looked upon poorly.

 

If a Scout is to live the Oath & Law in his everyday life then outside the sphere of Scouting doesn't exist.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

As a parent, no. The time allocation to Scouting begins when the youth steps out the door enroute a meeting, and ends when he steps back in the door.

 

As a Scouter, no. The time a youth dedicates to Scouting must include transportation from here to there. If I as a leader ask a Scout to do something, the time he applies into Scouting includes transportation.

[Bob White]

If that time is under the control of then troop then you had better have the required adult leadership present or you would be liable for the behavior. Do you really intend to follow all the scouts home? If not then your authority ends once the meeting is over and the scouts have left the activity venue.

 

Is their accident insurance still intact until they arrive at their destination? Yes, but the BSA is not the primary policy, and it is unlikely that the it would ever come into application since the victim's family insurance and then the drivers insurance would be primary.

 

As far as what the news stories would say... I could not care less. The concern should be for the welfare of the youth beacuse after becoming aware of the dangerous behavior that took place AFTER the meeting was over and the scouts had left.

[FScouter]

LisaBob in her opening post questioned if there should be a Scouting consequence. "Keeping in mind that this wasn't at a scouting function, is there an appropriate "consequence" within scouting?" Not one person posting here has advocated that the troop not address the hood surf incident.

 

So why is there objection to the comment that the decision to act or ignore lies with the troop? BSA does not REQUIRE action. Who else will determine the "consequence" if not the troop?

 

I'm far more appalled at the idea that discussion should be avoided at a court of honor. The venue will have far greater attendance of parents, siblings, and Scouts than any troop meeting, committee meeting, PLC meeting, or campout. And nobody is going to come to a special meeting to talk about it.