speaking about consequences

[Lisabob]

What do you make of this? While not at a scouting function a parent/troop leader sees some older boys from the troop engaging in extremely risky driving behavior (what I'm told is called "hood surfing" which includes driving down the road with a person belly down on the roof of the car). SPL driving in the car in front of the "surfers," older boy who recently obtained Life rank and just got his driver's license driving the surfing car (allegedly on a dare from SPL but that's hearsay), another older boy and patrol leader (Star rank) "surfing" on the hood of the car. Several younger scouts laughing and chasing after the cars and younger brothers riding in the cars, ensuring that others in the troop hear about it.

 

Keeping in mind that this wasn't at a scouting function, is there an appropriate "consequence" within scouting? Is this a matter of boys just being dumb but no one got hurt so we'll chalk it up to momentary idiocy, and moms over-reacting? Is this a case of "how could I trust these older boys to show judgment and keep an eye out for young cross-over scouts in their charge at a scouting event when they've proven themselves so untrustworthy here?"

 

Happily my child wasn't directly involved in this because if he had been and I'd found out, he'd have a lot more than just scouting consequences to worry about! But it is a matter highly likely to come up in a scouting context very soon and I'd be interested in your thoughts about appropriate responses within the troop.

 

 

[Bob White]

I see this as a learning opportunity.

 

Schedule a court of honor. Then have as surprise guest speakers an emergency room doctor and a police officer. Have each give graphic detailed reports on the dangers of hood surfing, then inform the parents that it has come to the troops attention that there are scouts in this unit who participate in this activity. Let them know that you are deeply concerned for their safety and about the choices they are making.

 

Suggest that each parent go home after the meeting and have a serious discussion with their child about this, and not to think that "it can't be my son" because then they will find out for sure when the call comes from the police, or the emergency room...or the coroner's office.

[Venividi]

 

In my area there was a death of a high school senior this spring doing something very similar. They young man, honor roll student, jumped out onto the hood of a car driven by a friend. The friend's reaction was to slam on the brakes. The young man slid off the hood and cracked his skull on the pavement.

 

I like Bob White's suggestion. In addition, asap, have a chat or conference with the scouts about the type of example that they are setting for others.

[Beavah]

Schedule a court of honor. Then have as surprise guest speakers an emergency room doctor and a police officer. Have each give graphic detailed reports on the dangers of hood surfing, then inform the parents that it has come to the troops attention that there are scouts in this unit who participate in this activity.

 

Yah, hmmmm.... no.

 

I may be funky, but I would never, ever do that to a Court of Honor. A Court of Honor is a place where we celebrate boys and their achievements, eh? A place where we applaud kids. It should never become a place where we lecture them, and dilute their achievements with a disciplinary action. I don't think it should ever be a place where we raise money, either, but that's a different story.

 

I expect that most of da parents involved are gonna land on these kids like a ton of bricks, eh? I don't expect yeh need any additional consequence in Scouting, because it wasn't a Scouting activity. But if yeh wanted to do something, I'd suggest workin' with those young troop leaders to have them do a presentation to the younger lads at a meeting, where they apologize for bein' poor examples and explain how dumb it was.

 

I reckon that will have the most impact on the younger lads, while also teachin' the leaders how an honorable man lives up to and corrects his mistakes.

 

Beavah

 

[evmori]

My question is how did you hear about this?

 

What I would do is at the next Troop meeting where all the Scouts that participated in the mentioned activity are present, I would have a serious discussion with them about how living the Scout Oath & Law in their everyday life means that part of their live outside of Troop meetings & other Scouting functions. I really believe boys this age don't make the connection between what they do outside of Scouting or school or jobs and how that might effect Scouting or school or jobs. And I also believe most boys this age don't get the subtle approach. Be direct. What these Scout did was could of had deadly consequences.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Certanily recognition is a big part of of a coh but it is also an opportunity for a group meeting with the parents 4 times a year to share major troop communications.

 

Youth Protection, Summercamp promotion, annual program plan, popcorn kickoff, certainly health and safety concerns are an acceptable issue.

 

Of course each unit can choose how effective they want this opportunity to speak with the parents and scouts as a group to be.

[Lisabob]

Ed, I was one of the parents who saw them doing it, not the only one either. And actually they were on their way home from the troop PLC at the SM's house. I think you're absolutely right that the boys do not make the connection of how the scout law and oath apply to life outside of scouting.

 

I admit I about blew a gasket when I saw these kids doing this. One boy told me they were "just having fun" and "weren't driving that fast anyway." (they were going at least 30!) I really doubt they understood how risky it could be.

 

I too knew a boy who was killed in exactly the same way that Venividi described, when we were in high school. My husband said he knew someone (else)in his high school who died that way too. He tells me lots of boys did this. Apparently it is through sheer dumb luck that any teenage boys live to adulthood! (no offense intended to present company)

[CA_Scouter]

I like Bob's suggestion about making a presentation with an emergency room doctor and police officer.

 

I agree with Beavah though, it should not be at a COH.

 

I think it needs to be addressed as soon as possible: next troop meeting if possible. I also think this should be brought to the attention of the parents. ASAP.

 

Regarding "And actually they were on their way home from the troop PLC at the SM's house."

 

I would consider that to be a scouting activity. I would blow a gasket too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Generally I like Bob's suggestion too but also agree with Beavah that the CoH isn't the best place for it. Unfortunately in our case the CoH is our next, and last, regular meeting until fall (we have troop activities in the summer but no weekly meetings). Not addressing it somehow at the CoH therefore means dropping it, since by fall it will be ancient history.

 

We have a well-regarded police officer as one of our ASMs and I think I'll suggest to our SM that this officer be asked to speak briefly to the group about summer safety in general, and perhaps to spend a few more minutes speaking privately and in more detail to the boys involved.

[msnowman]

I'm on the side of not at a CoH. IMHO that's just not the right place for this. If you want to address it, use a Troop meeting w/ the suggested speakers. Add in a survivor of driver stupidity if there is one.

 

Lisabob - did you hug Youngerbob and tell him that if he had been there you woulda killed him yourself?

 

Michelle

 

[SSScout]

SM Minute::

 

Pass around a honeydew melon from a chain store. Not as "ripe" as a "local" melon, but ready to eat. Let Scouts agree that it is firm.

Hold the melon about shoulder high and say "this HEAD does not have a helmet. When you fall off your bike, or motorcycle, or hood of a car and hit the pavement, this IS what WILL happen."

Let the melon roll off your hand.

Close the meeting.

(clean up the mess)

 

Try it before you "perform".

 

((State Police Presentation at school))

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I agree, like so many others, this topic must be dealt with, and must get inside the youth's heads.

 

In a different life, I've spent 3 years on my HS PTA safe driving committee. In turn, that goes back to the best political cartoonist none of you will ever know... because he was flipped from the bed of a pickup truck on the Ventura Freeway in June 1972... two nights before his HS graduation.

 

BW has the right scenario, but the wrong setting. This is a single-topic, all-hands, no-exceptions meeting of youth and parents.

 

30MPH is sufficient to kill if the passenger lands the wrong way.

[CalicoPenn]

I would consider traveling back from a PLC at the Scoutmaster's home to be part of a "Scouting Activity" in this case. If they were all coming back from a movie they went to together - different story as far as Scouting Activity goes.

 

I like the suggestion of SSScout - and it is a great Scoutmaster's Minute. I wouldn't do it as part of a Court of Honor - I'm with Beav - the COH is a place to honor folks achievements - and a safety lecture doesn't seem in the spirit of a COH. Yes - there is often information relating to safety at summer camp relayed at a COH - but in general, it is pretty specific to upcoming outings in a "What You Need to Know" kind of way.

 

Should there be consequences for the Scouts involved? That's a question for the Troop to answer. I think you can certainly make a case for it - but I'm usually not in favor of any sort of punitive actions unless the actions of the perps reach the level of threatening a Scout with a Weapon (as an example).

 

I do think a Scoutmaster's Conference is in order - and a chat with the lads parents (as concerned parent to concerned parent - let them punish their boys as they see fit). The Scoutmaster's Conference should focus on how their actions were perceived by the parents who witnessed it - and how those adults have serious questions about the trust they can put in the boys - an "I'm disappointed and parents are asking me how much I can trust you with and I don't have a good answer for them at this time" will do more to help the lads learn from this then telling someone he has to wait another 2 or 4 months for rank, or can't go on the next campout will.

 

Calico

[John-in-KC]

CP,

 

I like your part about individual SM conferences with youth concerned.

 

That said, and given this is a hot button issue, I think this topic needs much more time and energy than a SM minute.

 

If this were my unit, I'd fall on my sword for an all hands no exceptions youth and parents meeting ... as described by BW.

 

Had a fatality occurred... in Missouri I've seen the newspapers report Voluntary Manslaughter charges for less negligence than this!

[Lisabob]

Michelle, thanks for thinking of him and yes, I did.