What Is An Appropriate Consequence?

[OneHour]

What would be an appropriate consequence for a older scout who was caught and confessed that he smoked pot on a campout?

[Bob White]

That is a decision for the Council and the Charter organization to deal with. After all it was their rules he violated not yours. The Scout violated the law, he violated a BSA policy, he violated his Oath, he endangered the assets of the charter organization.

 

His confession changes none of those things does it?

 

Given a scale that had "Give the Scout a medal for confessing" at one end, and "remove his membership in scouting" at the other end, toward which end of the scale would you find your opinion?

 

 

[OneHour]

Bob ... giving the fact that this is the scout who has bullied 3 younger scouts (one of which is my son) and has physically hurt my oldest son. The scout is the one who is the reason why I am not serving any more, I'm afraid my judgement might be harsh!

 

I just want to see what say the population before I comment on what was decided by our Troop.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Bob White]

Just curious One Hour. When he physically hurt another scout and you reported the incident to the Council Scout Executive, as required by the Youth Protection Policies of the BSA, what action did the council take or recommend you take at the time?

 

When you reported the drug usage at a scout activity to the council, what action did they take or recommend?

[OneHour]

The physical issue was dealt with by the SM. The incident happened as follows: It was the end of the "game time." My son was the ASPL trying to herd the cats into their respective patrols. This scout did not like the fact that my son stopped the "dodge-ball" that he was finishing. He took one of the ball at pointblank (2-3 feet) threw it to my son's head! He had a SMC with the boy and the boy apologized ... end of story. Most of the adults especially his father chalked it down as boys will be boys. To me, it was an assault and my son could have been hurt seriously. I did not complain.

 

The later ... supposedly the Council and District were contacted. It was said that it is a troop's discipline issue. I don't know for a fact since I have not been back to troop for the past 6 months.

 

I just want to find out the gravity of the situation for those who are in the knows and those who have experienced it.

 

Frankly, I am not comfortable with the decision and may withdraw my sons from the troop.

 

Now, let's get back to the original question, how would your troop resolve the issue if it were your troop?(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Lisabob]

There are always circumstances and context so anything people say here is conjecture and your mileage may vary. That said, here I go conjecturing...

 

I don't think I'd advocate kicking him out as a first option, or even a distant second or third option, unless this is repeat behavior.

 

I do think I'd be looking at a suspension from scout activities for a certain amount of time, at least outings/camp outs. Boys who smoke pot on camp outs are clearly not able to control themselves well and/or are screaming out for attention to their problems, and as such, may end up causing harm to others, even if it is inadvertent. As a parent of a young teen I would also be very concerned that the troop send a clear message not only to this scout, but to all those younger scouts who are watching. And anyone who says "oh they aren't paying attention/they don't know" is fooling themselves; word travels quickly among youth about this sort of thing.

 

I'd want to see this boy removed from any POR he held, for the simple reason that when one is not in control of one's self, one cannot lead or take responsibility for others. I certainly would not expect to see him advancing in rank anytime soon.

 

And I'd want to work with this boy and his family to ensure that, if there are underlying problems (and usually when we talk about teens using drugs, there are other problems), he is able to get appropriate help.

 

All that said - I think our laws regarding pot are a bit silly and some people tend to exaggerate the consequences of smoking an occasional joint. No it isn't good for you and no I don't do it; however, in comparison to legal drugs such as alcohol I just don't see the need to continue to criminalize its use, among adults. But, the law is the law. And he's not an adult. And he did this in a setting where, even if it were legal and he were an adult, it would have been inappropriate in the extreme (we don't get drunk in front of scouts either).

[OneHour]

Lisabob,

 

rank advancement is not an issue for him. If you remember my previous post, he is an eagle scout. I do believe that he is there because his father is forcing him to attend. This is an eagle with behavior problems that his father refuses to recognize.

[Stosh]

When there is a law we do not agree with, we can seek to change it, not just disregard it. The boy broke the law and so it is no different than stealing or any one of a hundred other laws. Would it be ok if he was smoking cigarettes?, drinking beer, whiskey? Where do we draw the line? If the boy is crying out for help, there are a lot of other better qualified resources out there besides the BSA to handle this. These resources are needed, not a rap on the knuckles by the SM, CC or CO. If this boy is bullying, and harassing other people, I'm thinking there's more to it than smoking pot on an outing that needs to get addressed. Maybe it's time to quit looking in the other direction.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

That's especially unfortunate, coming from a boy who attained the rank of Eagle scout. (I know they aren't exactly a "rank" but don't forget palms though.) Keeping in mind a comment Eamonn has made a few times that a rank's worth can only truly be measured by the recipient, I won't comment on how he may have become an Eagle, etc..

 

Everything else I said would still stand though. And perhaps one reason his dad wants him in scouting is because he *does* recognize his son's behavioral problems and hopes that scouting will help him deal with them somehow. Things may not work out but I know several parents of "difficult" kids who put or keep their kids in scouting for exactly that reason. Or not - obviously you know the facts on the ground in a way that random folks on the web cannot.

 

Edited to ask: How old is this boy? Are we talking 13-14 or 17-almost 18? There's a world of difference there.(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[OneHour]

Lisa ... he is almost 17. Palms ... his got his bronze. His father does not want him there because of any salvation that I know of. Frankly, I'm not sure why. His father defends his son's various actions or inactions! As a matter of fact, the father is what I would call a double-standard hypocrite. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=187457 ... that was another story and it's water under the bridge. By the way, I don't think that I have ever mentioned that this scout directly disobeyed my instructions (and the camps') and actually put himself and another scout in danger by venturing into a forbidden area? His father defended his son's action!

 

I'm not sure why I care any more. Maybe because of the boys who are in the troop, some of whom I have know since Tigers! Most of whom, I personally recruited! Maybe because of my sons!

 

Back to the present programming. What would your troop have done? Please remember, a decision by our troop has been rendered. I'm just being curious as to how it stacks up with others' in the scouting world. I'm not looking for advice on how to deal with this. I'm just being curious.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

OneHour, there's just no way to answer your question without knowin' the players and the circumstances, eh? I think all good adults try to do their best and use their best judgment. None of us get da call right all the time, and some not much of the time.

 

Plus I'm not sure us shorin' up your belief that your CC and SM are patsies and an ASM and his kid are dirty rotten scoundrels is the healthiest thing for you, eh? There seems to be a lot of emotional "history" there in your previous threads.

 

It's hard when you've felt some "ownership" in a program to let it go. But you're no longer involved, right? If you take a deep breath and are honest with yourself, I suspect that yeh have to admit that you're not directly aware of the circumstances of what went on, either in the incident or da follow up.

 

So I'd let it go, mate. If your son is doin' fine, celebrate his accomplishments in da troop. Find some good role at district, or when your son gets clear, go start a Venturing Crew or take someone up on da SM offer. The Scoutin' world is a big place. There's good and some bad and some just lack of courage. Don't let the bad get yeh down, there's a lot of good. And there's always another job to do!

 

That's my best advice, eh? If it's completely off and yeh really need perspective on how other troops have handled similar things, I'll comment again. But think about it first.

 

Da only thing I will offer is that I don't think any troop would file a criminal complaint with law enforcement unless a lad was dealin'. Yah, sure, "da law is da law" and all that, but we're youth volunteers. Our role isn't to enforce laws, it's to work with kids.

 

Beavah

 

[evmori]

What is appropriate? Removal from the unit. Call your council & have his name removed from your charter. Anything less is condoning the actions of this boy.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OneHour]

B.,

 

Yup, I have let it go. For six months, I have not been back. I got this news through my sons and concerned parents and it got me concerned. If it were another boy and it is his first time (trying it out), heck, I'm all for forgiveness and let's give him a timeout. I made stupid mistakes when I was their age once ... ok even twice and thrice.

 

I have been gone from the troop, but that doesn't remove me from caring. You are correct again. I do not have direct contact with the troop. I was at peace and still am. The scouts and their parents still come over to talk to me about their eagle projects and their plans.

 

I have thought about it and here is my concern. My concern is the influence that this young man will have on all the boys and my sons since my oldest is in the same patrol. My concern is from a typical parent. My concern is whether or not I would continue to let my 2nd son finish out his eagle with this troop or force him to go to another. Perhaps, my point is that this is not this kid's first serious infraction.

 

The troop has decided to suspend him from troop activities for 4 months and 3 of which is summmer which our troop has very little activities. He is still eligible to attend the High Adventure trip. He was to apologize to in front of the troop to which I found out from my son that he did not. His father thought the punishment was too harsh.

 

You said it best ... "Our role isn't to enforce laws, it's to work with kids." I'm not looking to go and challenge the Troop and its decision. I'm looking to see if troops out there have done it or not. If so, what was it. If the scouting community thinks that this is no big deal, then our Troop is in sync.

 

Raising teenager is very difficult as everyone will admit. Sometimes I have to get all data before I can make a decision with them how to go forward. More and more as the months pass, the answer becomes clearer for us. The current SM will be stepping down and this boy's father seemingly wants to step up. That is our cue to definitely move on.

 

But with all honesty, all that I want to see is what is an appropriate consequence for such action. I only fill in the details to give folks the background. Again, I'm not going to pull back that water that flowed under the bridge already. Am I here to find faults with our SM and CC decision? No, not at all. Sometimes, it just takes data to complete the picture.

 

Beevah, you're right. Maybe someday, I may take on the SM position. In the meantime, I need to learn how to deal with various issue, eh? By the book, by logics, by passion, or by anything else. After all, scouting is a game with a purpose. As you indicated above, "I think all good adults try to do their best and use their best judgment. None of us get da call right all the time, and some not much of the time." I want to make sure that I learn from everyone and how they interpret the book and not just by the book as Bob always indicates.

 

The flame is not hot any more.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[SemperParatus]

I can say with near certainty that in our Troop, the Scout's membership would have been terminated.

[Eamonn]

I bought the house where I now live 21 years ago.

The people I bought it from had build the house. Over the years I have made a few alterations and changes to the house.

Last summer I was playing in the darn flower beds!! When the previous owner stopped by. He noticed that I had pulled up and got rid of all the ivy he had planted. (It was some kind of tricolored ivy. Which I didn't like and had a really hard time getting rid of.) He was a little upset that I had removed the ivy. In fact he said "What have you done with my ivy?" I explained that I didn't like it and had got rid of it.

My thinking about this was if the ivy was so very important? He ought not have sold me the house and 19 years? Come on!

If you have left the Troop? You have to let go.

You have to inform the Scouts and parents that come to you that you are not the person that they need to be talking with.

Wearing your "Parent Hat".

You need to decide what you think is the best plan of action for your kids.

If you really do believe that having your sons around this 17 year old Eagle Scouts is bad for them? Maybe removing them from the Troop is for the best?

Maybe because he is already 17 years old? You might decide to just wait it out?

The bottom line is that you have to as a parent do what you think is in the best interest of your kids.

As to what happens to the Lad who has confessed that he smoked pot on a campout? This is up to the Troop.

My hope would be that the Troop (Leaders and Committee) deal with this with the best interests of the Lad at heart.

If you are friendly with the Lads parents? Maybe a quite word in their ear might be in order? If you are not able to do this. I think allowing the unit to deal with it as they see best is the way to go.

While I'm sure that there are times when an "Appropriate Consequence" is what is laid down in black and white. I do however believe that we are here to serve the Scouts and there are times when the Appropriate Consequence is what is in the best interest of the Scout. Depending on the individual it might be best to teach him a lesson by "Throwing the book" at him or maybe having the right person counsel him and take him under their wing?

I'm not sure what the law in our area is for pot. Our local JP is a nice fellow who does his best to try and give young offenders every chance. I don't know how much leeway he does have? I have talked with him and we both share the same opinion that giving a kid a fine, which most times only penalizes the parents who end up paying the fine does little for the young offender.

Eamonn