young SPL candidates

[Lisabob]

I know, I know, age is not everything. Tell me though, how you feel about this. My son and a couple of other boys who are currently 7th and 8th graders and 1st Class or Star ranks, have been strongly encouraged to run for SPL, by a leader whom they trust. There are also a couple of boys who will be in 11th grade running, both of whom are dedicated and active scouts.

 

Yes I had my moment of parental pride. My son! Maybe an SPL! And if he is elected I'll support him however he wants me to.

 

But you know, I'm not sure he's ready for it. He likes scouts, has been a patrol leader three times and struggled, and learned from his struggles. Recently he took on the task of building and leading a venture patrol and they are just beginning to dream big dreams.

 

But he told me he was only running for SPL because Mr. So-and-So asked him to, and he hopes he doesn't win. He isn't one of the kids who eats, breathes, and sleeps scouting. He goes to most events, but half the time I think it is because I'm driving and his options are limited!

 

If he gets elected I know that he will work hard but I think it will be a source of great stress for him. And I'm concerned he'll burn out and not want to come back after that. What do you think? Is 13-14 really a young age to be SPL, if a boy isn't breathing fire to do the job? I sort of hate to say it but I kind of wonder if this adult isn't encouraging them to run just so there's a competitive election? I respect and like this guy but his pressure on my son surprised me. I wonder if he isn't being set up a bit and (mom instinct rising now) I can't say I like wondering that.

 

 

[evmori]

If he doesn't really want the job, he shouldn't run. What I would suggest is he have a sit down with his Scoutmaster & discuss this with him.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[scottteng]

I like what the other SM is doing encouraging the younger boys to run with the caveat that they have to want to. With an 11th grader even though until now they have been a dedicated scout the likelihood is that Job, school and social activities will soon crowd out scouting. There is a position for these older boys it is JASM. Most troops are heavily weighted to the younger scouts and they relate well to a younger SPL ours tend to be in the 14-15 year old range. Once they can drive (15 here) they are not around much any more. If your son really does not want SPL then have him choose what he would really like to do and run for that. It could be though that the other boys would really like to have him as SPL having seen how he was as a patrol leader and he is just avoiding responsibility. They never like the dictatorial patrol leader or SPl and to be a consultative leader is a lot of work.

[Ohio_Scouter]

Lisabob,

 

I think that 13-14 is an OK age to run for SPL, but he really has to want it. My son was SPL in his troop for over 4 years, but he really wanted the job. IMHO, I think your son probably has enough to do with his new Venture Patrol--especially since it's just getting off the ground. My advice to him is to wait a couple of years, enjoy forming and experiencing his new patrol, and then decide on the SPL job later.

[Beavah]

Yah, it depends, eh?

 

If yeh are in a troop where the older boys really aren't around much because the program doesn't hold onto 'em, or where Eagle-ing at age 14-15 or so is da norm, then generally an 8th or 9th grade SPL is about right, eh?

 

If yeh are in a troop where older boys are active (because of more well-developed patrol method/youth leadership, or more well-developed older youth programming like OA/high adventure/etc.), then an 8th grade SPL would be too young, and a 9th grader would barely cut it.

 

I can't tell what Lisabob's troop is, but with two 11th graders running for SPL it sounds like it might be the latter (?).

 

Lisabob, good adult leaders are always encouraging and recruitin' guys who seem capable and enthusiastic, eh? The ideal place for any scout to be is somewhere where he gets to really "stretch" and grow, but not so far that he breaks. Boys often need to be encouraged to stretch like that.

 

I'd trust your unit leadership to have your son's best interest at heart. Maybe the SM is trying to set up a situation with an older boy SPL but a younger ASPL; maybe he's just planting a seed, knowing that whether your son goes for it or not, it will set him up to be a prime candidate for SPL next time. Maybe he thinks it's time to encourage the go-getters in the "next generation" to take the reins, or recognizes that the troop is more like da first type I mention that scotteng talks about, and your son is ideal. Any way you cut it, though, it's a vote of confidence in your kid.

 

I'd trust your son to understand the troop dynamic and his own needs as well. Boys who think they might not win an election often protect their egos and status a bit by saying that they hope they don't win, where a small glimmer within really wants to. I think the proper thing to do as mom is to say "Wow, that's really cool and a really high complement from Mr. Scouter. Tough choice for you, though. Have you made up your mind?" Remember, as 800-lb gorilla in your son's life, it's SOOO easy for you to inadvertently send the signal that you don't have as much confidence in him as Mr. Scouter. Almost anything you say that in any way discourages him will be interpreted that way, eh? Tough being a parent.

 

So like everything with kids, it's worry quietly, pray, be ready to support, and hang on for da ride!

 

Beavah

 

[Lisabob]

Thanks for the input. Beavah, most of the time I'd say our troop fits the second model you mention. Most boys who earn Eagle are 16-17 and we usually have a fairly active corp of high school juniors/seniors.

 

So it seems odd to me that 3 of the candidates this former SM is pushing are only going into 8th and 9th grade. I'm not sure these boys (my son among them) agreed to run because they want to? Or because they want to please this former SM. The first is great, the second, not great. But yes, I guess they are the next "generation" in the troop and it is a bit surprising to think of them as the "older" boys! When did that happen?!

 

One other thing - I don't think we do a very good job of utilizing ASPLs in our troop - there's just not a lot of mentoring that happens there. Most of the boys who have been ASPL tend to fade away from scouting after a year of that, rather than staying and becoming SPL the next time. Kind of a shame really, and I can't tell if it is mainly due to their age (our SPLs and ASPLs tend to be older high school boys) or because of the way the job turns out. I'd rather not see our younger fellows go down that road though, as I think all 3 of them could be strong SPLs in another year or two.

 

Well thanks for letting me express my worries. I'm sure that, if chosen, my son will give it his best and he'll certainly learn from the experience either way.

[Eagledad]

Hi Lisabob

 

I cant really say if this is the right thing for your son because I dont know your son or the troop well enough. What I do know is this:

 

I think 14 is young for a mature troop program. Its not that they cant handle it, they can. But they just dont seem to gain from the experience as much as the 15 year old.

 

Most scouts who truly run for SPL the first time are nervous and unsure of themselves.

 

I have found that while the SPL experience doesnt change the boys personality, it magnifies it a lot.

 

In the good troops, the experience is exhausting. In the bad troops the experience is boring.

 

Not one of the SPLs under my time as a SM quit scouting before their 18th birthday.

 

While a couple of my SPLs were not that great as leaders, all were super scouts and super leaders after their SPL experience because they learned so much about scouting in those few months. Even the 14 year old SPLs are miles a head of the other 14 year olds. They were truly the best of the best and viewed that way by all the other scouts. Once an SPL, always an SPL.

 

No matter what job they take on after being an SPL, past SPLs are looked at as JASMs by the other scouts because they are the adults of the scouts.

 

All our SPLs volunteered to be Troop Guides. I used to wonder why, but looking back on it, the TG was the closest servant leadership job in the troop that gave the same feeling of satisfaction they got from being an SPL.

 

If your son doesnt become an SPL, he still has plenty to reward his experience until he is ready. If he does become an SPL, he will hate the first two months, love the second two months, then look forward to the next election day the last two months. He will never be the same after, and he will always have a part of himself in the troop. If the other scouts dont take the troop seriously, he will take it personally. But if the other adults dont take the troop seriously, he will get angry. Every SPL looks at the troop as theirs to protect.

 

There is a lot to consider, but really it is only six months of stressful intense frustrating leadership that will change him for the rest of his life. Depending on the troop of course.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[Lisabob]

Thanks Barry, some good thoughts to consider. (Just as an aside, our SPL/ASPL serve for a full year rather than 6 months - I wonder how typical that is?)

[NeilLup]

Hello Lisabob,

 

By and large, the job of SPL done by a 13-14 year old is different from the job done by an older boy. The older boy has seen more and makes fewer errors but the younger Scout makes up by enthusiasm. Both are great experiences.

 

Best of all can be if the somewhat younger boy is the SPL and the older boys are JASMs and mentors.

 

It would be interesting to learn why this trusted adult is encouraging these younger boys to run. Does he not trust the older boys, just want more competition or something else? Is he committed to training and supporting the younger Scouts?

 

One year terms are a bit unusual but not unheard of. I would think that a one year term for a less committed younger Scout could get ugly. It also means that the commitment by the Scout is greater. It does make life somewhat easier for the adult (less training needed) but that should not be the primary concern.

 

In short, if you believe that your son will "catch the fire" if he is elected SPL and do what is needed, then I would say go for it. But if you believe that he will be forced to be more committed to Scouting than he wants to be, particularly for a one year term, then running for a less senior position is probably appropriate.

 

This is fun kind of stuff as Barry says.

[Eagledad]

>>(Just as an aside, our SPL/ASPL serve for a full year rather than 6 months - I wonder how typical that is?)

[Beavah]

Yah, wow. Just a big "ditto" to Eagledad, eh? My experience is da same as his. 1-year SPL terms tends to be a feature of a mature program with a lot of activities and older boy leaders, typically from a mixed-age program.

 

I think that's what you were describin' your troop as, or at least movin' toward with the addition of Venture/older scout activities.

 

B

 

[John-in-KC]

Lisa,

 

Your son should be just about old enough to draw good benefit from attending youth leader training (NYLT). Have you broached that with him as an option?

 

I think him having a talk with SM about responsibilities of ASPL might be a good thing. It might give him that next boost.

 

 

[Hint]

My scout is an 8th grade SPL for an 85 member troop. His troop doesn't have separate elections for ASPL and SPL. The scout is elected to ASPL for a 1/2 year term (June COH-Dec COH or vice versa) and then automatically moves up to SPL for the next 6 months. This troop does the same with the patrol leadership positions as well. So my scout had 6 months of training as ASPL before he took over in Dec. When he was serving as ASPL, his SPL was a 10th grade Life Scout. Right now both the SPL and ASPL are 8th grade Life Scouts and OA members (one is Brotherhood, 1 is Ordeal). So they may be young, but they did have scouting experience.

 

We live in a area with a lot of military families so every so often the ASPL will not get to do SPL and the troop will have to elect 2 officers. This will happen in June since my scout will be finishing up his SPL term and the ASPL is having to PCS with his family. It also happened 2 springs ago for the same reason.

 

My scout is a little concerned about who will become SPL without the ASPL time so he has taken it upon himself to encourage certain boys with natural leadership ability and a command presence to run this June. Haha, he says he wants to be an engineer but I think he should be a politician!

[NeilLup]

The scout is elected to ASPL for a 1/2 year term (June COH-Dec COH or vice versa) and then automatically moves up to SPL for the next 6 months.>>

 

This is an exceedingly interesting approach. At first glance, I really like it.

 

I might suggest that you see if you son can have one or more of those Scouts which he is encouraging to run for ASPL be appointed as Troop Instructors (if they are not) so they can get some leadership experience at the Troop level.

[gwd-scouter]

Hi Lisa. Since I don't know your son I can't speak to whether he would do a good job as SPL. I can only relate my recent experience with our 14 year old SPL.

 

Last December we had elections and I was surprised that we had five guys that wanted to run. The current SPL was running again, and four others. In the end, the current SPL decided not to run so we held elections with four Scouts: one 15 Life Scout, one 15 1st Class, and two just turned 14 1st Class Scouts. I was hesitant about the two younger Scouts mostly because I didn't honestly think they were ready, but I had seen some good signs of growth in them and also knew that if I told them they couldn't run there would be heck to pay with their mothers (I know, definite cowardice on my part).

 

Anyway, one of those 14 year olds won. I have another thread running about all this and how it all turned out so I won't go into great detail here. I will say that these past six months have been hard work and exhausting. He started out well, but it became obvious just a couple of months in that he really didn't want the job and was happy to be unprepared and just let the older Scouts step in to save him. His mother witnessed a few of these saves and berated me about the older Scouts (especially my son) embarrassing him and how I really didn't want him to be SPL and harbored resentment that my son was not elected.

 

A couple of months ago it became very clear to me that this Scout was no longer interested in the job. He stopped arranging PLCs and left it to our other junior leaders to take over. Sure, he'd show up for a meeting and immediately take the front and open up the meeting. But then he'd just stand there waiting for someone to take over and do something.

 

Sadly, in the end, just this week he's decided he is no longer interested in Scouts and dropped out of both NYLT and summer camp. Just called me on the phone and told me last Monday. His mother was upset when I told her that their deposits for both camps could not be refunded by Council at this late date. "Leadership is too hard for him and he's burned out. Scouts just isn't fun anymore," she said.

 

I'm not suggesting any of this would happen in your case, Lisa. Just wanted to share my recent experience.