Should a boy hold two PORs?

[fgoodwin]

Stosh, IH isn't a registered leadership position, as far as I know -- there is no patch for it.

[hotdesk]

Your IH is listed on the charter. He also signs the charter. There may not be a patch for this position, but that doesn't mean he isn't registered.

[evmori]

Didn't know having a patch for a position equaled being registered?

[fgoodwin]

hotdesk: I stand by my statement that IH isn't a registered BSA position. Yes, the IH has to sign the charter, but there is no requirement that the IH register with BSA.

 

Its true that an IH may hold any position in the unit if he or she wants to; that doesn't violate the limit against double registration because the IH isn't a registered position.

 

If you have documentation to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

 

And evmori: no one s/b wearing a BSA position patch if they aren't registered, wouldn't you agree? The patch may not equal their registered position, but I never said otherwise.

[Venividi]

To bring this back from adult to a boy holding two POR's, and as it is a Friday, which is a good day for esoteric discussions - What do you think the odds are that a scout at sometime, after having been an inactive life scout until, say 4 months before he turns 18 and reappears and wants get an Eagle, asks for 2 POR's so that in 3 calendar months he can meet the requirement for holding one or more POR's for 6 months? And then a heated discussion would take place here as to whether not approving such an arrangements would be adding to the requirements, because there is no rule against holding two POR's simultaneously?

 

Just want to liven up a Friday - :-)

 

[Eagledad]

>> And then a heated discussion would take place here as to whether not approving such an arrangements would be adding to the requirements, because there is no rule against holding two POR's simultaneously?

 

Just want to liven up a Friday - :-)

[Stosh]

Just because I put in 30 years of Boy Scouting and 10 years as Venturing Advisor doesn't mean I have 40 years in Scouting.

 

If a boy needs to fulfill his POR responsibility and is running short on time, use the alternative project requirement and be honest about it rather than fudging the numbers.

 

Maybe we ought to teach our boys to be proactive with their advancement instead of waiting around to the last minute and having everyone run around trying to find their way around rules so that some boy who has not been paying attention for the past 7 years can get his Eagle. Somehow I find a degree of questionable honesty in some of these approaches to bending the "rules".

 

Stosh

[hotdesk]

I don't think I would count this scout serving 3 months in two positions as serving for 6 months. I believe the intent of the requirement is to be 6 calendar months.

 

In our troop we usually expect the scout to be under 18 for the entire duration of the position's term (6 months). We haven't had the problem where a scout hasn't served for 6 calendar months in a position before Eagle though.

 

As for the Institutional Head he is a chartered member. I found this from the Watertide Council:

 

Following are the leader position letter codes used on recharter rosters:

 

IH = Executive officer of the chartered organization (also known as institution head)

CR = Chartered Organization Representative

CC = Unit Committee Chairperson

NL = Venture Crew Advisor

MC = Member of Unit Committee

NA = Venture Crew associate Advisor

PT = Pack Trainer

TL = Tiger Cub Den Leader

CM = Cubmaster

DL = Cub Scout (Wolf or Bear) Den Leader

CA = Assistant Cubmaster

DA = Assistant Cub Scout Den Leader

SM = Scoutmaster

WL = Webelos Scout Den Leader

SA = Assistant Scoutmaster

WA = Assistant Webelos Scout Den Leader

VC = Varsity Team Coach

SK = Skipper (Sea Scout Ship/Crew Leader)

VA = Assistant Varsity Team Coach

MT = Mate (Assist. Sea Scout Ship/Crew Leader)

 

Following are rechartering highlights:

 

A charter is considered complete when it has the following: (1) all required leadership positions filled, (2) been signed by the executive officer of the chartered organization (also known as institution head) and the unit leader, (3) youth and adult addresses, telephone numbers and birth dates and (4) payment of registration, Boys' Life subscription and accident insurance fees.

 

Only the registered executive officer of the chartered rganization (also known as institution head) and unit leader are authorized to sign your unit's recharter roster. If there is a change of executive officer of the chartered organization, have the new executive officer complete an adult application (position code "IH") and submit it with the recharter.

 

Every unit must have the following leadership positions filled: executive officer; chartered organization representative; committee chairperson, a minimum of two (2) members of committee; and a unit leader (cubmaster, scoutmaster, varsity coach, post advisor, crew advisor). Cub Scout packs are required to register at least one den leader in addition to the other positions listed in the preceeding sentence. Please keep in mind that no Cub Scout den should have more than 8-10 youth members and that two deep leadership is mandated by the Youth Protection requirements and the Guide to Safe Scouting.

 

[Oak Tree]

We just rechartered and received our membership cards from council. There was no card for the IH, even though he was on the charter paperwork. So, while that's not a definitive way to prove a negative, I'm saying the absence of the card that says "John Adams, Instituational Head, is a member of the BSA" is fairly good evidence that IH is not a registered leader.

 

Now, if he's filled out a leadership application as an IH, then I guess he would be. But I don't think he has to be. Does the BSA require that the head pastor of all these churches that sponsor units fills out an application form?

[Eagledad]

>>Somehow I find a degree of questionable honesty in some of these approaches to bending the "rules".

[Bob White]

IH is not a registered position in the BSA nor is he or she a member of the BSA. There is no unit position code on a membership application for IH, there are no membership listings with the BSA of the IH.

 

IH is merely used as a label to identify the head of the chartering organization.

 

IH is a position in the chartering organization not in the unit or BSA. A person who is the head of the CO can register in any unit position and is is not a duplicate registration since as IH they are not registered volunteers.

 

The purpose of the Leadership Method of scouting is not make the operation of the unit easier or to see how much workload a scout can handle.

 

Its purpose is to help youth develop leadership skills through coaching and mentoring from others. The Position of Responsibility is the tool we use to allow the scout to apply and practice those skills.

 

The purpose and process is not improved or aided by multiple positions.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn]

"Its purpose is to help youth develop leadership skills through coaching and mentoring from others. The Position of Responsibility is the tool we use to allow the scout to apply and practice those skills. "

Bob White -I'm with you all the way.

 

However:

"

The purpose and process is not improved or aided by multiple positions"

This also holds water and makes good sense, but..

 

Depending on what the position is?

Taking into account what the Scout wants and doesn't want to do and is able to manage?

I see no harm in a Boy Scout who wants to serve and is able to serve in more than one position, doing so.

It is not going to harm him in any way and is not going to harm the BSA.

I see this as making the program fit the boy and not allowing us to fall into making the boy fit the program.

A Lad who is happy serving as a Den Chief and is doing a good job should not be told that he has to give this up in order to take on another POR.

Ea.

 

[Bob White]

Taking into account that most troops offices have terms of 6 to 9 months (if they follow the recommended program) the scout has the oppotunity to hold anywhere from approximately 9 to 14 offices in the course of his Troop career alone. Why should it be needed for him to do more than one at a time? Why not let him commit to one job for the 6-9month duration and then let him proceed to a new challenge afterward?

 

There is no award or recognition for the quantity of leadership roles a scout holds at one time. The Scout gains nothing by holding multiple positions in the unit anymore than an adult does.

 

And it carries all the same problems that are caused by an adult holding multiple positions in a unit.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Stosh]

The nationally recommended ideal program might be good for some of the troops out there, but when there's only 5 boys in the troop, that means one is the SPL, one is the PL, one is the ASPL another the APL, that leaves the last scout the Scribe, Historian, TG, QM, OA Rep, and Bugler.

 

Sometimes the nationally recommended ideal program has to be adapted to meet the needs of the individual troops. (Which I'm going out on a limb here and say that this involves the vast majority of troops out there today.)

 

Sometimes common sense needs to overrule the recommendations or at least remember that they are just that, recommendations.

 

Stosh

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Jblake

A troop with only five scouts does not need all the offices that a larger troop would use, they just need...5.