What has happened to courtesy?

[FireKat]

and how can we revive it? Is it possible?

[FScouter]

The decorum of the forums 99.9% in the hands of the forum membership. I'd suggest not responding to unScout-like behavior.

[evmori]

I don't think courtesy is gone in the forums. Posters respond to others in their own way to get a point across. Some are more direct than others. That doesn't make them discourteous.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[FireKat]

Sorry, I guess I should have been a bit more clear.

I am not wishing to discuss the forum members but kids in general.  Form a few scouts to your or others kids and how we can encourage the to act respectfully.

Holding doors, saying sir and ma'am.  Cleaning up after themselves without arguements.

An example of a bit of the problem:  At a scout function we had hot chocolate in packets for the kids to make as needed. I expected a bit of mess form spils and such but not the messes they left by leaving their empty packets on the tables.  The trah can was about 3 feet from where they mixed up their drinks. I moved the trash can to right next to where they stood mixing their drinks and they STILL left the packets on the table!!!  Some of them looked at me funny when I suggested they use the trah can.

In defence of some of the boys, there were a few who did help clean up but they were a minority. Kudos to those boys' parents and SMs.

I would like input on how to help teach some of these boys courtesy when it is short contact and how to get the leadership to work on this.

[Bob White]

Thats unfortunate Fire Kat, But I don't know that it is fair to anchor all kids together as having the same problem. There are some characteristics of kids that is inherent in most. Some are good and some not so good. B-P felt that juvenile deliquecy was caused by a combination of a childs natural exuberance combined with their lack of knowledge of the world around them, and that the soultion was to give them things to do with their energy while you taught them about their world.

 

In the Ship I serve Scouts really want to get on the water, we use that exuberance to teach them things. In order to sail they need to learn specific skills and exhibit certain courtesies to others.

 

We get comments all the time from members of the boat club that charters the Ship on how impressed they are by the scouts manners and helpfulness to the club members and each other.

 

Perhaps you can find a way to take the scouts you serve and use something they enjoy doing and build an understanding of courtesy into it?

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[OldGreyEagle]

I agree with Ed

 

Marshall McLuhan said it best "The medium is the message"

 

If you want people to listen, you need to use words that are friendly. Telling someone they are a big fat tub of lard will hardly endear you to a loved one who should shed a few pounds. Rather expressing concern about their health may be a better approach. Telling someone they suck at being a scout leader may not be the best way to get your message across. Now, I use hyperbole to make a point.

 

Of course, this may be harder in practice, or in the "real world" as Beavah would say, and all we can do is try, and I for one promise to be trying

[FireKat]

With kids I have long term contact, I have not had much problem teaching the manners. But how to make an impression on the kids like those with the hot chocolate? You may have a few minutes only.

[OldGreyEagle]

With the Hot Chocolate scenario, after the mess is made, can you gather the group together and point at the mess. Then ask who should clean it up. Hopefully someone will say all of us. Then have all clean it up. While they are cleaning, ask what could be done in the future to avoid such a mess and make the point that being clean and tidy helps with all sorts of clean ups from hot chocolate to National Parks

[Stosh]

Courtesy is not a skill to be learned, it is an attitude that can be cultivated.

 

When I took over my new troop 6 mo's a go, I had 5 boys and they referred to me by my first name. When I was first introduced to them it was with my whole name. When speaking in front of the other boys, I started referring to them by Mr. and their last name. There is confusion if their parents are also leaders, so I also refer to them by their rank: i.e. Tenderfoot Smith, or Star Roberts. Without any corrections, reminders, etc. there are now no boys who refer to me by my first name.

 

If courtesy and respect is given, it is also received.

 

In the case of the hot chocolate, I would probably turn to my best scouts and ask the question: "I wonder if the Outdoor Code applies Indoors as well?" It is then up to them to decide whether or not it applies. If they don't think so, I would simply say, "I guess to me it does" and then clean it up myself.

 

Courtesy as well as leadership is demonstrated by example. If one is going to lead, they have to get out in front.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[frank10]

Ah, the best reason of all for uniforms... Take down their numbers and invite their own SM's back later to clean up. Sure to know that the boys won't forget next time.

[Hunt]

I share FireKat's perplexity at what to do when kids show a lack of manners, and we have only limited contact with them. It seems to me that a friendly reminder with an explanation is the best approach is such a case, i.e., "It would probably be a good idea to throw those packets in the trash, so we don't give extra work to the custodians who have to clean up this room after us. We'd like them to have a good opinion of the Scouts." versus "Hey, throw out your trash! Don't you know that it's rude to leave it there?" In both cases, you're conveying a clear message of what is polite, but the second message will probably just be interepreted as an adult exerting authority. (To relate this to courtesy on the forum, I would just say that it's always better to explain why you think something is the better approach.)

[hotdesk]

It's not ALL kids.

 

There are kids that lack common courtesy. They don't understand that they are responsible for their thoughts and actions. They would much rather verball harrass another scout, leave a mess for others to clean, or talk loudly when a leader is leading a meeting.

 

HOWEVER, in my experience, for each one of those scouts, there are at least 5 more that not only clean up after themselves and are respectful to not only themselves but others AND encourage those that lack courtesy to do better.

 

That is why I have stayed in scouting. Watching scouts grow over time in their vaules, morals, and believes and becoming more comfortable around adults is very impressive.

 

Do not only look at the bad, the kids that lack courtesy, but consider those that go above and beyond as well.

[evmori]

I have a theory about what happened to courtesy with kids.

 

Here goes ..................

 

Kids today lack the social skills to be courteous. They spend too much time playing video games and chatting on line when they should be out & about. The lack of physical human interaction is, in my opinion, a big part of the problem. The root of the problem is parents doing nothing about this & letting their kids be discourteous instead of placing them in situations where they can hone their skills. They would rather shield little Johnny from anything that would make him uncomfortable instead of letting him experience and learn from those type of situations.

 

I'm done now!

 

Thanks

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[local1400]

Yeah, Ed beat me to it. Manners and all that go with them start in the home. If a child has been raised with poor manners, they will exhibit them even though they are a Scout. Why? Because the Scout Law and Oath are just words they say at meetings. Same problem here Kat. Have two or three that clean up after the other Scouts all the time, without being asked. The rest need to be prodded or told to.

[gwd-scouter]

Courtesy. Something I've been dealing with a lot lately it seems. It may just be the winter blues, but I am getting increasingly upset over the lack of courtesy shown by some of our Scouts and, worse, their parents. Of course, the lack of courtesy on the parents' part explains a lot about the Scouts.

 

Recent example: Our Scouts know and are reminded often that they must attend the Troop meeting and pay any money due immediately before a weekend outing. Or, if something comes up and they can't be at the meeting, they must let their PL know.

 

We have a ski trip this weekend. Guys and their parents have known about this for months, and email reminders sent about when money was due, etc. Last night, one of our Scouts showed up and was talking with the other guys about the ski trip. Thing is, I've never heard from this Scout or his Mom that he was actually going, never received the deposit, nor the full payment that was due last night. When I saw his Mom in the parking lot after the meeting, she just said, "Oh I just don't have time to check emails, I'm very busy. Here's a check."

 

So, why would this Scout even care about courtesy and personal responsibility in letting his fellow Scouts know if he's going on a trip or not - Mom doesn't?

 

I completely agree with Ed on the lack of social skills in many young people today. All the cells phones, emailing, and text messaging, are causing ever decreasing sociability.