what to do when scoutmaster needs disipline

[evmori]

Actually, Beav, I think FScouter was referring to my post where I said proof is needed.

 

YP is nothing more than knowing the boys in your unit & using common sense. Knowing when & who to report abuse, neglect, or other types of child endangerment is the tricky part with the trickiest part being when to report.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

"YP is nothing more than knowing the boys in your unit & using common sense. Knowing when & who to report abuse, neglect, or other types of child endangerment is the tricky part with the trickiest part being when to report. "

Oh! If life were only that simple!!

If you know the boy and he is in your unit that is one thing.

I don't see how this helps cheffy with what he has asked?

There he is 600 miles away.

What should he do? (If anything?)

I'm thinking maybe I'll retake the yp training!!

I used to think I was good having presented the training so many times that I was expecting to receive Christmas cards from the people in the videos. Now? I'm confused!!

My take was that if a Scouter suspected any kind of child abuse of a Scout he was to report directly to the SE.

If the child isn't involved with Scouting and /or the person who is suspected of doing the abuse isn't involved in Scouting there are Child Abuse Hotlines and other ways of reporting the abuse.

 

Ea.

 

 

[FScouter]

Gee Eamonn, I'm a simple guy. Can I join the dope club too? Sometimes simple is most effective: within Scouting report to SE, outside Scouting report to hotline. Like Cordelia says, "Your job is not to investigate, your job is to recognize and report."

 

Confounding a simple issue with legal definitions, opinions, a mismash of federal, state, and local laws, and a search for understandin' just enourages folks to do nothing. Cordelia has it right.

[LongHaul]

If we are going to listen to Cordelia let's remember that tape was made in 1993. Let's also pay close attention to Detective Mike Johnson when he talks about being protected civilly "when you report to the proper authorities". Neither Social worker Jim Chavis nor Detective Mike Johnson say anything about reporting to BSA. If you involve your SE you are not protected from libel or slander charges brought by the accused.

When you witness a crime (again find out the difference between criminal assault and criminal battery and child abuse) and you delay your contact with "the proper authorities" to seek LEGAL ADVISE from your SE you can be held liable for what happens in the interim. I don't see why the SE wouldn't be guilty of practicing law without a license seeing the BSA requires the SE's intervention in the legal procedure.

LongHaul

[FScouter]

"I KNOW NUTHINK!" would avoid a slander lawsuit too.

[Beavah]

Sometimes simple is most effective: within Scouting report to SE, outside Scouting report to hotline. Like Cordelia says, "Your job is not to investigate, your job is to recognize and report."

 

Yep, dat's a good simple rule of thumb. Along with YPT's final admonishment: tell no one else. Report to whom you should, and then be silent and let 'em do their jobs.

 

If you're lookin' for simple, that's the way to go, eh? BSA YPT is like civilian CPR in that way. Keep it simple.

 

I hope most adult leaders care enough about this stuff to keep learnin'. Ed and Eamonn and LongHaul have real points. When you actually encounter these situations they're rarely clear-cut and simple. Most cases are ambiguous, with "real world" issues alongside CO and BSA stuff. Cheffy's example is a good one - what to do with a second-hand report from a minor 600 miles away who has a whole bunch of issues with his new troop?

 

This is where havin' a deeper understandin' of the issues helps, including the proper role of the CO, SE, law enforcement, social services, and legal system. Civilian CPR is simple and OK, but it can be worth learning CPR for da professional responder and AED use, which goes a bit beyond simple; it can even help to have someone who gets a higher level of trainin'. Certainly, it shouldn't be discouraged.

 

For all da grief they've gotten, I have to commend da Catholic folks for their new efforts. Their training focuses mostly on crimes against children, not child abuse. It's ongoing, with "continuing education" modules to keep learnin'. And they've developed a very sound institutional reporting infrastructure.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White]

So far Longhaul the only person to suggest that the SE is giving legal advice is you.

 

They will help you with proper reposrting for the location where the abuse is believed to have taken place, that is not legal advice. They will help you with local resources for the scouts, and their families, that is not legal advice.

 

And since it happened on scout property or during a scout activity, after the scout's needs are taken care of, the SE will likely want to know how it was able to happen and what YP barriers were in use and which ones were not.

 

But there is no leagal advice. You are manufacturing a situation that does not exist.

[LongHaul]

Seems your tone has changed there Bob. The YP training says call the SE and let the SE handle the situation. Now you are saying call the SE and follow the SE's directions but those directions are not legal advise so that would mean we could choose not to follow the SE's directions and still be in compliance because we called the SE first. So recapping If you are a Scout leader and you witness or suspect that a crime has been committed on BSA property or in connection with a BSA event you call the proper authorities and report it...UNLESS that crime involves a youth member and is sexual in nature, resulted in physical harm to a youth member at the hands of another, or resulted in mental harm to a youth member at the hands of another then you would call the SE. That right so far? LongHaul

[Eamonn]

Sorry Beavah,

Seem to me that you are muddying the waters.

I'm not sure what:

" but it can be worth learning CPR for da professional responder and AED use, which goes a bit beyond simple; it can even help to have someone who gets a higher level of training'. Certainly, it shouldn't be discouraged."

Has to do with this thread?

Maybe a spin off to take a look at the Good Samaritan Law doctrine is and its purpose might be an idea?

All States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the U.S. territories of American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, and the Virgin Islands have statutes identifying mandatory reporters of child maltreatment. A mandatory reporter is a person who is required by law to make a report of child maltreatment under specific circumstances. Approximately 48 States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the territories have designated individuals, typically by professional group, who are mandated by law to report child maltreatment. Individuals typically designated as mandatory reporters have frequent contact with children. Such individuals may include:

Social workers

School personnel

Health care workers

Mental health professionals

Childcare providers

Medical examiners or coroners

Law enforcement officers .

 

My thinking is that these people know their job and do what they have to do.

 

Here in the BSA,if I'm standing outside the dining hall and a Scout comes to me with a black eye and informs me that his SM has just hit him.

The training tells me that I report this to the SE.

If I'm at home and a boy comes to me with a black eye and tells me that Mom's boy friend has hit him.

I can call 911 or I can call one of the Child Abuse Hotlines.

Some states will allow me not to give my name, while others will require it.

A lot of states do require that the reporter and the child be in the same state.

I don't know what training SE's receive.

At the risk of being very wrong, I think that maybe some of it has to do with protecting the good name of the BSA?

If CO's have additional requirements that they deem to be necessary to protect the children that they serve and their good name? I think they (The CO) will inform volunteers who serve in these units what the requirements are.

Some people find the YP training we have in place now, hard enough to understand, adding a lot of legal Mamba-jumbo is not helping anyone.

Anyone who wants can take the time to research as much or as little as they want. If they feel the urge they can go to law school and take the bar exam, going on to specialize in this area of law.

But for most of us everyday Scouter's, we take the training as offered and do our best to follow it. If we are unsure about something as it pertains to Scouting and the BSA? We talk to the SE.

Outside of Scouting, we can seek advise from professionals who deal with this sort of thing.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, now that's twice moderators have used da term "legal mumbo-jumbo". I hope it's in good fun, and isn't really implyin' that folks who do legal work or offer that kind of insight should be devalued or dismissed, eh? Wouldn't want any hurt feelings. Lawyer jokes are bad enough, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

" I hope it's in good fun, and isn't really implyin' that folks who do legal work or offer that kind of insight should be devalued or dismissed, eh?"

 

Why not?

[Vicki]

" I hope it's in good fun, and isn't really implyin' that folks who do legal work or offer that kind of insight should be devalued or dismissed, eh?"

 

Why not?

 

GW, have to admit - you have, in two words, been ruder than any other poster I've read on scouter.com. Congratulations.

 

Vicki

[Gold Winger]

Thank you but isn't it considered rude to tell someone else that they are being rude. Food for thought.

[evmori]

"I KNOW NUTHINK!" would avoid a slander lawsuit too.

 

Only if Nuthink is the one you are talking about.

 

Two rudes don't make a right?

[Vicki]

GW wrote "Thank you but isn't it considered rude to tell someone else that they are being rude."

 

Hmmm, I don't think so. Not when it's so consistent and escalating to such an extent that it's obviously intentional and directed to the point where a normally polite person such as myself gets tired of trying to get past it. You crossed a line.

 

Vicki