what to do when scoutmaster needs disipline

[John-in-KC]

I'm not an attorney. My brother is (in Fairfax County, VA, in fact... but he's a contracts and acquisitions guy)...

 

Beavah gave two good and true pieces of advice:

 

1) He gave us the US Dept of HHS child welfare website. Further, Scoutldr gave us a charitable operating under US DOJ grant.

 

2) If you have a question, a local attorney, currently licensed, will be glad to consult. I think you will find most of the 308 BSA Councils have access to one who is either retained or volunteers professional skills.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From me:

 

3) If you don't trust an attorney, and still have a question, consult your local child endangerment reporting agency! They'll be glad to educate.

 

4) Finally, since I believe every SE is a mandatory reporter, you can always ask them what their obligations are in their State or local jurisdiction.

 

Come on folks, let's get some common sense going here. I don't always agree with Beavah, but connect the dots guys... he has easy access to US District Court filings... as though he was licensed to practice the profession. He tends at times to warn people he's not giving bottom line legal advice... as though he's a practicioner of the profession.

 

I'm just a dumb old artilleryman, and I can connect the dots.

 

Getting back to the topic at hand, I hope Cheffy does have that call with a certain Scouts' parents...

[Gold Winger]

"1) He gave us the US Dept of HHS child welfare website."

 

I'm neither a lawyer nor a cannoncocker but I am smart enough to know that the federal government isn't the official source for information about state laws.

[Beavah]

As well meaning as Beavah may be...the information I shared is straight from the BSA Youth Protection training, as are the policies and procedures I outlined for cheffy.

 

Nah, BobWhite. You're misquotin' BSA Youth Protection, which explicitly refers to the guidelines for each council that are to be made up in accord with that council's individual state laws. Those wonderful BSA professionals and child care experts and such yeh refer to do that because they understand that information is different for different states. They'd be irresponsible if they tried to make a single "national" version, eh?

 

That's the danger in takin' one-hour training. It's easy to misinterpret bits and pieces because yeh don't have time to learn the underlyin' structure for how things work. Or worse, you might get a one-hour-trained trainer!

 

Da other thread I referred yeh to gives a more complete explanation of some of the issues.

 

----

 

GW, I know you're never gonna listen to this furry critter, eh? But for anybody else who is interested, the way yeh read that line is

 

The following persons who, in their (professional or official) capacity

 

not

 

The following persons who, in their professional (or official capacity),

 

because, of course, the latter would not make grammatical sense. So a doctor who is seeing a patient as a doctor has to report reasonable suspicion of child abuse; a doctor who is an ASM on a scout trip does not. Whether he should or not is an ethical choice, not a legal one. At least, that's how this furry critter would read that statute.

 

Oops... and for those wonderin' why the Feds collect and disseminate this information for all the states, it's because a Federal Statute, CAPTA (42 USC 5106g) mandated that states pass these laws, in a particular form, and that the department collect information from the states to evaluate compliance.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[FScouter]

If a kid is getting abused, the legalities in various states don't mean squat as to whether a report should be made! All I need is a reasonable suspicion of abuse and I'm on the phone. Sure, there is all kinds of discussion to make about this law or that policy, but if a kid is hurting, moral law demands that a report be made.

[Beavah]

If a kid is getting abused, the legalities in various states don't mean squat as to whether a report should be made!

 

Yah, I agree with this, to a point. I just feel people should be provided with the correct information, so that they can make their own choices. There's ethics in educatin' people, too, eh? Not just in protectin' 'em.

 

What's tough is that when scouters use da term "abuse", they're often not referring to the legal thing called "child abuse." They're referring to some other crime that a scouter who is not the child's guardian can commit, like sexual battery.

 

For those kinds of crimes, there is no statutory immunity for the reporter. Those reports don't go anonymously to Children's Services for a social worker to investigate. They go to a law enforcement agency as a public record of a filed complaint. A citizen should be very careful about making a formal, public complaint that someone is committing sexual battery against a child, eh? It might not be what you want to do based on suspicion. There are a lot of very real damages associated with that kind of accusation if it turns out to be false.

 

Dat's why the BSA's Youth Protection Trainin' teaches that for that kind of suspicion within Scouting, you are to call the Council Scout Executive and/or your Chartered Organization Rep. Then you are reporting your suspicions to professional supervisory personnel within the program, who can conduct an investigation or take appropriate action. You aren't making a public accusation that someone committed a heinous crime.

 

Dat's the "why" behind what gets taught in YPT.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

Beavah

Which bit of info from YP do you feel I misrepresented? In rereading my post the only thing I would rewrite is "Most States" rather than "all but a few" other than that my information matches the YP information.

 

 

[FScouter]

"A citizen should be very careful about making a formal, public complaint that someone is committing sexual battery against a child, eh?"

 

Thanks for the warning ehh, I'll be verrry careful. If I think a kid is being hurt, I'll make the call, and won't call my personal attorney for a legal opinion first. If CPS turns it into a public case so be it. The kid's welfare is more important than any personal risk to me that somebody might get upset if I was wrong.

[OldGreyEagle]

So a scout leader thinks abuse is present in a youths home, checks the website and sees he is not a mandatory reporter. He can sleep easier at night knowing that if anything bad happens to the child, he is not legally responsible. The child is still dead or injured, but at least the leader is not on the hook.

 

Attending a presentation at a University of Scouting I heard a Child Abuse Specialist (great job title huh?) say she would rather investigate 10 cases reported by well meaning people and find nothing than "find" the one case that everyone knew about but nobody said anything because they didnt think it was their place to do so(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[evmori]

So a scout leader thinks abuse is present in a youths home, checks the website and sees he is not a mandatory reporter. He can sleep easier at night knowing that if anything bad happens to the child, he is not legally responsible. The child is still dead or injured, but at least the leader is not on the hook.

 

We have to be careful when we are making assumptions about what goes on in a Scout's home. Unless we see physical evidence or actually witness abuse, we could be putting an entire family in jeopardy for no reason.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[FScouter]

Good point Ed. Better to just look away and not get involved. It's probably the kid's fault anyway. That's what we teach in YP training right? Do an investigation first and when you have proof, then report. The most important thing is to be absolutely sure that you don't damage the reputation of the suspected perp.

 

Please 'splain me if I'm missing the point of "youth protection".

[evmori]

You ain't even close FScouter. Nowhere did I say don't get involved or it was the kids fault. How do you know those bruises on little Johnnies arms aren't from getting beat up at school & not at home? Or maybe he did fall down the steps? You don't know. And if you report mom & dad for abuse, you could be doing a great disservice to a fine pair of parents who love little Johnny more than anything. And that disservice would be wrong.

 

Don't look the other way & get involved. Just make sure you are making a judgment based on something other than your feelings.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

FScouter,

 

We have to apply common sense and judgment to every situation we encounter as adults. That includes what we see when we're at the Troop meeting or campout, and we see something that doesn't look right.

 

I live in Missouri. Here are two websites for the child abuse reporting hotline:

http://www.dss.mo.gov/cd/rptcan.htm

http://www.dss.mo.gov/cd/can.htm

 

In my case, since I am not a mandatory reporter, I can make an anonymous report. There is also a resource I can use to ask questions if I'm not sure.

 

Now, your State? You have to do your own research.

[Bob White]

"How do you know those bruises on little Johnnies arms aren't from getting beat up at school & not at home? Or maybe he did fall down the steps? You don't know."

 

Ed,

What did you learn from the BSA YP training about bruising and other injuries?

 

 

[FScouter]

"You have to do your own research."

 

The only research needed is what is taught in YP training. Report to the agency and/or SE listed in the handout given every participant. If you lost your handout, report to the SE and let him take it from there. That sounds like good common sense to me.

[Gold Winger]

Ah yes, the mark of a good citizen is to report all suspicions to the Vopos, excuse me, proper authorities.

 

What ever happened to "better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man spend a day in prison." Now, the mantra is, "We'd rather mess up the lives of 100 innocent people just in case."