what to do when scoutmaster needs disipline

[cheffy]

This is a tad long so bear with me here.

Got a call from our former SPL who moved to a different state last summer. He joined a new small (10 familes)troop and is the oldest boy there at 15. He is helping the current spl understand "boy led etc" Great kid going for Eagle this summer.

The reason for the call is that there is a boy in the Troop that is ODD and on the last campout took hot fork from a marshmallow and "branded" the boy next to him. The boys in the troop want to do something about this but the bad part is that the kid is the son of the Scoutmaster and the mom is the entire committee. The dad si verbally and phyically abusive to his son adn has threatened to " break every bone in the body of any Scout who challenges his direction".

Apparantly campouts consist of a 2 mile hike followed by sparking up the generator and playing X box.

The parents and scouts don't know how to handle the situation or what to do it's also a small town where everyone see everyone. I'm 600 miles away so offering help is a long distance thing.

My suggestion was to call a meeting withthe parents and make sure that the DE is there. Explain the situation and concerns and let the paid professional work it out. Any other ideas?

[Gold Winger]

I'd have a sit down with the Unit Commissioner and the Charter Org Rep.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I am not on the ground. I am working solely from the information you gave me.

 

Let's make this real simple:

 

Assuming the young man you mention is Trustworthy, the incident itself, as well as Scoutmaster Dad's behaviors with his own son and comments to the Troop, are potentially Youth Protection violations.

 

I'd recommend four things:

 

1) EagleCandidate Mom/Dad make an immediate appointment with the Scout Executive. Police up the EagleCandidate and head for Council.

 

2) Parents of the Eagle Candidate, who claims he is the eyewitness and earwitness, need to inform the Chartered Organization Representative. Tell the COR that the parents are taking the boy to the local Scout Executive. I would do this whilst enroute, or while waiting for the appointment to begin.

 

3) THEN, the parents and the young man keep that appointment with the SE.

 

4) Young man and parents need to plan to find a new Troop. This level of incident approaches burning the bridges.

 

Assuming the truthfulness, these are serious allegations, and need to be dealt with using appropriate agencies.

 

I assume there has been two-deep leadership on outings which can back up what EagleCandidate says. I further assume there are other youth who will back up in all forthrightness what EagleCandidate says.

 

Now, all that said: If you have any doubts of the truthfulness from EagleCandidate, then his Mom/Dad, as parents, need to have a long cup of coffee visit with the SM.

 

I am assuming truthfulness of what I read here.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Beavah]

Yah, well, and then there are those few...

 

Now, we're gettin' a call from a 15-year-old, and seein' it through his eyes, eh?

 

Have you talked to your former SPL's parents, cheffy, to get their take on the matter? I like youth leaders, truly I do, but there's a wisdom that comes from maturity.

 

I'd start there.

 

For my part, if adults truly have reasonable suspicion that a parent is bein' physically abusive (in the legal sense) of their child, then yeh call Children's Services and make a report, and yeh notify the SE if you believe that abuse has gone on in Scoutin'. Then yeh let the pros do the investigatin' and take action. If it were a mature and reliable 15-year-old, I might assist him in makin' the report to Children's services.

 

The parental abuse is the biggest worry here, eh? Not that there aren't other worries.

 

As for the kid who got poked with the hot fork, you're a bit far removed, cheffy. I think yeh discourage your SPL and the other boys in the troop from "doing something about this" and instead encourage him to have the boy who was poked tell his parents, or have your former SPL's parents call the other lad's parents. Then it's their game.

 

But I'd also start a thought in your head in a different way. Be aware of the possibility that your former SPL really liked your troop, and is goin' to find fault with another troop no matter what. That might take the form of complainin' to you about all da things that are "wrong" about it, in ways that are more "enthusiastic" than the real situation might cal for, eh?

 

Hard to tell from afar. I think your role is to call your former SPL's parents, and then it stops.

 

Beavah

 

[scoutldr]

I agree...a threat of physical violence, e.g., "I will break every bone in your body", should be taken seriously and immediately reported to the SE as a YP incident. It could have been an innocent "figure of speech", but we don't have the luxury of talking that way any more. Let the SE sort it out. I would immediately withdraw my son from that troop, and inform the COR and SE as to my reasons why.

[Bob White]

For any aggressive physical contact resulting in an injury between scouts, the unit is required by the policies of the BSA to report the injury to the Council Scout executive.

 

As an adult if you suspect that physical abuse has taken place against a child you are required by law in nearly every state to report that abuse to the proper leagal authorities. If you suspect that such abuse has taken place in relationship to scouting, then you are required by BSA policy to report your suspicions to the Council Scout Executive in the council where the suspected abuse took place.

 

This is were the scout your are counseling to the other scout should should begin. If he has concerns that abuse has taken place he should talk with his parents and explain that if he were three years older and believed as he did he would be compelled by law to call the authorities, and that if his scoutmaster had followed the policies of the BSA he would have notified the Council Scout Executive of the burning incident, he should ask his parents for guidance and assistance in this matter. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Beavah]

As an adult if you suspect that physical abuse has taken place agains a child you are required by law in nearly every state to report that abusise to the proper leagal authorities. If you suspect that such abuse has taken place in relationship to scouting, then you are required by BSA policy to report your suspicions to the Council Scout Executive in the council where the suspected abuse took place.

 

Yah, we've discussed this in other places, eh? But this statement is inaccurate and should not be relied upon.

 

Please, please, if you're not legally savvy or trained in these areas do not give people what amounts to legal advice.

 

And especially in this sort of remote, hearsay from a minor kind of situation, things are tricky.

 

Cheffy should call the lad's parents and encourage them to talk with their son.

 

I think its safe to say that if the kid who got poked were injured, his parents would already be on it, eh? So despite the sensational language about "branding", there's probably nuthin' more than a minor poke here. A youth discipline issue, for sure, but not a stop the presses call the cops situation.

 

Only thing that's at that level is a true suspicion of abuse by the parent on their own kid. And that's got to be first hand. And if that's for real, they gotta be goin' to Child Services and/or someone in their state who knows what they're talkin' about.

 

Beavah

 

[scoutldr]

For a state by state listing of reporting requirements, see:

 

http://www.rainn.org/node/348

 

I didn't think scout leaders were mandatory reporters in Va, but it says, "any person associated or employed by a private organization responsible for the care, custody or conrol of children". That's pretty clear to me.

[Beavah]

Yah, scoutldr, that depends, eh?

 

If by "clear" you mean "clearly does not apply to a scout unit leader" then you are correct.

 

An organization responsible for the care, custody, and control of children would be something like a group home, orphanage, or perhaps licensed day-care center and such.

 

B

 

[Gold Winger]

When I lived in Virginia, we were told that Scouters were mandatory reporters. I guess they had it wrong and should have checked with the Beaver.

[Vicki]

Given the words "professional or official capacity" in the header, and the conflict then introduced by "Any person associated with or employed by any private organization responsible for the care, custody or control of children;" in the body of the text, I think I'd make a call to the reporting agency and ask if I was a mandatory reporter if I thought it was a reportable situation. Get the name of the person who answers the question.

 

Vicki

 

[evmori]

Looks like in PA, Scouters aren't mandatory reporters!

[Beavah]

Yah, I encourage folks who are interested to search via da official department site:

 

http://www.childwelfare.gov

 

rather than third-party sites. The federal site makes it more clear that Virginia mandatory reporters are limited to professionals acting in their official capacity.

 

As always, if yeh want a truly reliable answer, yeh have to ask an attorney licensed to practice law in the state who has experience in that area. Not a well-meanin' BSA trainer. Not "somebody told me so." And not an old Beavah who lives a thousand miles or more away .

 

Anyway, here's a reminder link to the last thread where we went through some of this, eh?

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=169589

 

It's also a really good example, because the case that looked serious to all of us based on hearsay and what was posted to da forum turned out not to be a real issue at all.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White]

As well meaning as Beavah may be...the information I shared is straight from the BSA Youth Protection training, as are the policies and procedures I outlined for cheffy. I feel comfortable saying that several well qualified experts in the medical, legal, and child welfare fields are responsible for the content of that training and the BSA policies related to it.

 

I cannot help but believe thay have a better grasp of the situation than Beavah's personal opinion. And for the protection of the child I would be far more likely to follow the YP recommendations and not Beavahs.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Gold Winger]

"Yah, I encourage folks who are interested to search via da official department site: . . . rather than third-party sites. "

 

Oh, Beaver, Beaver, Beaver. Evidently you don't know what a third party site is or you don't understand the relationship of the Federal gummit to the states. Virginia may be close to Washington DC but the Feds are not Virginia.

 

Unlike the Beav, I go to the horse's mouth. The following is from the Va. Code

Va. Code 63.2-1509(A). The following persons who, in their professional or official capacity, have reason to suspect that a child is an abused or neglected child, shall report the matter immediately . . .

. . .

12. Any person associated with or employed by any private organization responsible for the care, custody or control of children; . . .

 

It doesn's say "professionals acting in their official capacity," the actual operator there is "or."

 

I'm guess that's we were told that we had to report. The well meaning volunteer trainer? A Fairfax County police officer whose job was dealing with abused children. I may be wrong but I think that he might know what he was talking about. Of course that was a few years ago and the laws may have become less strict since then.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)