Honor Guard

[1Vigil]

I would like to find another troop that has a "Honor Guard" within there troop like ours. Maybe exchange ideas. When I say honor guard it means just that. The boys that take it the extra mile to present our nations color the right way. We march and drill just like the military. We even do flag disposals too.

 

We have performed for the St. Louis Cardinals baseball game and the Canadian National Anthems. Did the first opening baseball game in Marion Illinois of the Marion Minors team. We have done camporees and all of the OA Lodge flag ceremonies. Even our Adults appreciation banquets. We even have a bugler that does all the calls. The boys are even talking about adding a couple of drums to the team.

 

Each time the boys preform it is different. They can handle any set up as they drill so many different ways. We get a lot of comments from the public and scouting events. Most of all from the vets. We try to show the boys at the troop meeting the right way to honor the flag or flags.

 

If you have a team in your troop or crew I would love to talk to you about it. Its a great program.

[hot_foot_eagle]

My troop did this regularly when I was a boy. We opened conventions at least monthly, presented the colors, and frequently led 1000+ people in the pledge of allegiance. I remember working very hard to make everything right, but no one ever complained. I found out later that we would receive honoraria of $100-$500 almost every time we went which no doubt provided camperships, uniforms, etc. as well as equipment for the troop.

 

A troop near me has started doing colorguards as well with great success. They have help from an ex-marine (yes I know, Once A Marine. . ., but he's too young to say retired) who not only served on the honor guards at the White House and Pentagon, but also trained marines for those jobs. Talk about sharp. Those boys received high compliments after presenting at the Memphis Grizzlies. I understand that several vets sought them out during and after the game to tell them what a great job they did.

 

I still have a dream of putting together a colorguard in reproduction 1910 uniforms for the 100th anniversary. It's on the back burner for the moment, but I have several leaders and boys who really like the idea.

 

Before the PC set jumps in and says "but Boy Scouts aren't supposed to do military drill", let me add that it has always been OK if the boys ask to do it. When I've taught boys to drill it's always been great fun. It doesn't take boys long to get it down well enough that they can teach and coarch each other.

 

 

[epalmer84]

Color guard or honor guard training is perfectly fine. It is when you have them marching with a rifle (even a dummy) on their shoulder that you cross the line of "technical military drill and training."

 

Troops can't wear a custom emblem (crews can), but there is a flag ceremony patch you could wear as temporary insignia:

http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=UNIFORMS&c3=SEMBLEMS&c4=&lv=3&item=80202

 

Ed

[1Vigil]

Hey its great that you two replied to my thread. We too trained with several military branches. We started out with our local Nationa Guard unit. Then moved on to an honor unit in another town that did the silent drills which were NO.1 in the state of Missouri. They have also march in the parades whit an Honor Marine drill team. The boys really look up to these men with a lot of respect. Which its all about. They only have to tell them one time and its in memory. Myself........... I was never in the military. I also feels its my way as well to show my respect to our vets and soldiers and our country. Now more than ever.

 

I love the idea about dressing up the boys in the 1910 uniforms for the 100th anniversary coming up. I wonder wear I can get a pattern to make the uniforms. Any clues? As far as rifles. That is a real NO NO. We talk about in our team meeting about how many people in our community don`t know the proper way to display the flag. Our troop also sells contract to play flags out in our community on holidays. Man............... the town looks soooooo nice. It makes you proud and is a good PR for the troop as well.

 

Our next venture coming up is our Council Court of Honor for our Eagle Scouts held at the local Universtiy. Several of our new boys on the team will be doing the ceremory as our first team will be getting there eagle award. Plus the TV crew will be right in there face as they parade right in from of them. But this again is what it is all about.

[Beavah]

Yah, 1Vigil...

 

One of da things you (and other units) should consider is helpin' with the burial ceremonies for veterans. Check out

 

http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/index.xeml

 

Havin' an honor guard, Taps, and/or rifle salute can mean a lot to the family of the veteran, and is somethin' that units with trained honor guards can easily handle.

 

Beavah

 

[1Vigil]

Great Website. Yeah........ the ex VETS are always looking for someone that can sound off taps at funerals. We had one boy several years ago that played taps for the military. I had our bugler last year play in our Adult apprecation baquet. We retired the color after we played taps for a retired scoutmaster that had been killed. It was very touching. They have now come out with the electronic bugles. You don`t even have to know how to play it to use one. But it is still not like the real thing. Thanks for passing on this website. I haven`t seen it yet.

[CNYScouter]

Close order drill in still part of the Sea Scouts/

 

The youth members of the Ship took training in this and now use it when they have been asked to opening cerimonies.

 

Here are some links to the Sea Scout Drill manual:

 

ftp://seascout.org/pub/Program/Drill_manual.pdf

 

http://www.sss601.org/drill.html

 

 

 

 

[1Vigil]

CNYScouter, those are great links to your manuel. I have only seen one sea scout unit since I have been in scouting 33 years. You just gave me a great idea to follow behind your manuel. I think I will make one for our troop honor guard. I am in the publishing business so I can print just about anything. I think having a manuel will make it concrete and if the new boys need to study it would come in handy.

 

GREAT HELP !!! THANKS

[Gold Winger]

Hey Sarge! Nice manual.

 

I was on a military drill team in college (many trophies/many awards) and on the military color guard for football games.

 

Your manual brought back some memories. Sniff!

 

Now I'm going to get my Garand out of the closet and talk to it for a while.

 

FWIW, I think that basic drill should be part of the core cirruciculum for Scouts. How to stand at attention. How to salute. How to get from here to there without looking like a cluster-f. Unfortuately, BSA frowns upon that.

 

BSA, as is often the case, doesn't make much sense. Drill is bad except for flag ceremonies. But if you don't know basic drill then drill for the flag doesn't make any sense to you unless that is your primary function and you've practiced for it.

 

Oh well, we live in a world where everyone claims to support the armed forces but are afraid that any "military" influence with make their kids run off to enlist.

 

[1Vigil]

I have never been so proud our our boys in the troop as much as I have the boys that are in our Honor Guard Unit. That is why we call it the "HONOR GUARD". I make a big deal when the boys post the colors and take the time to dress the colors before leaving the flags. For those who don`t know what I mean is. When they post the colors. They take the time and make sure the flag is hanging just right. The eagle on top of the staff is pointing to the audience. The tassels are just right too. It show a lot of respect.

 

Gold Winger you should be proud as I can tell you still have your uniform to look at. I am going to see how I can get some photos to show. Would love to see others posted here as well.

[Rip Van Scouter]

1Vigil, I like your style. I have thought about approaching my boy's Scout troop about starting an Honor Guard unit. They are probably the typical BSA troop. No one wants to drill or practice Flag ceremonies, except at the weekly troop meeting. And then it is almost unbearable to watch. It was so bad this last week (all the older boys were out ata "Life to Eagle" seminar, that the Scoutmaster had to step in and review a few details for the boys, like securing the right grommet on the flag so when they hoist it up the pole (they use a rope and pulley even on the short wood pole!) it will not be upside down nor get stuck when the knot does not go through the pulley. There was even confusion about which side the American flag goes on! The pair hoisting the flag took so long to get it hoisted that the SPL called for the Pledge of Allegiance before they had even secured the flag to the rope! When the SPL yells, "Troop, Fall In!", he follows this by a pathetic "Troop, Attention!" Silly me, I always thought you were supposed to "Fall In" AT ATTENTION! That, "Scout Salute", and "Troop, AT EASE" and "Dismissed" are about all the commands they know. I have yet to see them actually march. When the troop ventures forth from their campsite en masse at a camporee it quickly becomes nothing but a line of stragglers. Maybe, having a trained Honor Guard, who then could work in a little troop drill now and then, might be a good start.

 

Anyway, when I was a scout, over 30 years ago, we practiced Army drill, but without arms. We were not a "gung-ho" troop, like another troop in our district that to this day wears the Campaign hat as their standard headgear, has a guidon twirling the "troop flag" (actually a golf course hole number flag with their two-digit troop number, as a regular BSA flag would be too unwieldy), and acted as if they were a military unit, but we DID know how to march to Assembly and Flag cermemonies and how to "Fall in" correctly, and then "Dress Right, DRESS!", so we still looked sharp. I continued to practice and drill after Scouts in Army ROTC in college, a stint in the Air Force Reserve, volunteered with a local Civil Air Patrol unit as a drill instructor for the cadets, and finishing College on the Pershing Rifles competition Drill Team, including being on the Honor Guard for football games (firing our signal gun for touchdowns) and college/town parades (St. Patricks Day parade was very big where I went to college. If you are from Missouri, you can probably guess where that was!)

 

Let me know if you do complete that drill and Ceremony manual. I would love to get a copy. Does BSA have ANY official policy on close order drill? I have seen that at one time BSA did even have an official drill manual, including "manual of arms" training with hiking staffs instead of rifles or swords. Sounds like a good idea to me! What do you think about an Honor Guard with an arch of Crossed Staffs when a "retired" Eagle Scout gets married for the Bride and Groom to walk under outside the church? I actually participated in one wedding with "crossed sabers" back in college. What a blast!

 

 

[Stosh]

One must always be aware there is a difference between Ships/Crews and Troops. There are a lot of things a Crew can do that a Troop cannot. My crew is trained in full military color-guard including full drill up to and including batallion level maneuvers at least at the 1860's level. With that being said we annually participate in at least a half-dozen flag ceremonies which often include a full 21-gun salute with real weapons using blank rounds. Not much of what we do would be applicable to a Troop. Only one's council can define where that vague line lies in your particular area.

 

Stosh

[Rip Van Scouter]

Stosh,

 

What you do may be special and you have every right to be proud of it. However, don't count out Boy Scouts when it comes to Honor Guards, especially for Flag Cermenonies. Yes, Boy Scouts are not allowed to drill with firearms, but there is plenty of D&C that can be done with out firearms. At one time Boy Scouts even used Staffs for a sort of "Manual of Arms".

 

Yes, Boy Scouts can not present a "Rifle Salute", nor execute fancy spins and tosses, as in the "Queen Anne Salute" and other maneuvers, but they can do an excellent job with a Bugler playing taps at a funeral, accompanying the pall bearers, and folding and presenting the draped flag shrouding a veteran's coffin, or as the Honor Guard for a Flag Raising/Lowering ceremony at public events (baseball games, parades, political rallies, etc.). Many veteran's have also been Scouts and Scouters and so are very appreciative of Boy Scout participation in such events. Sometimes the Boy Scouts may be the ONLY honor guards available. Better than nothing, right?

 

I am still curious where Sea Scouts get special exception to the BSA "No firearms except on qualified target ranges" policy, blank ammunition notwithstanding, since blanks can also be very dangerous. The "Guide to Safe Scouting" makes this clear by limiting rifle shooting to rifle ranges with quilified instructors, even for Venturers, which I believe is where the Sea Scouts program falls under.

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss08.html

[Stosh]

It would be unfair to accuse me of judging the quality of a Boy Scout vs. Venturing/Sea Scout color-guard program. If one were to assume such it would be something they would need to address with themselves for it is not within my power to deal with what others assume. With that being said, it is important to emphasize that there are different rules that dictate different limits between the two organizations. Understanding these does not in any way make one color-guard better or worse, right or wrong, in comparison.

 

I am totally uninformed about the rules of Sea Scouts, but with Venturing, it depends a lot on the activity of the Crew. Because of our situation, national has informed us that we do not have to follow the G2SS as long as we remain within the accepted safety guidelines of the hobby with which we are involved. It would be the same for any activity. If the safety rules of SCUBA or rock-climbing were more strict than those of BSA, the hobby rules would prevail. I can assure everyone that BSA doesn't always know what is the best policy in every situation and must rely on the dependability and common sense of it's leaders to make the appropriate adaptations to the activities. Whenever we did depart from G2SS we confirmed it with the national office, the office always went with our information. For example, in the reenacting hobby, on a large bore artillery piece, a Venturer is not allowed to participate, yet it is the only place in the hobby where the crew members on the piece have to be 16 years of age and certified by a nationally accredited school of artillery. That level of safety is the highest and the venturers cannot participate, but they can participate in any of the other non-safety certified places in the hobby. Go figure.

 

Check with national on these issues to make sure there isn't some leeway in the process to allow venturers or scouts to do something a little out of the norm for their situation. Color-guards may or may not fall into some leeway areas, it would be difficult to venture a guess because of their high visibility to the public. Check with national.

 

Stosh