Are we trying too hard? Do the youth know it?

[Eamonn]

Talking with a fellow the other day, he said that he has a little girl who is about 3 years old.

It seems that she is a handful who very much likes to have her own way.

He said that his wife is into the "Parenting Books"

One of these books had stated that you never ever smack a kid, instead you crouch down till you are eye to eye with the child and explain what the child has done wrong and if need be follow up with a time out.

It seems this worked well until one day the mother must have forgot what the book said! She did give the child a smack on her rear end. The little girl looked at her and said "Mummy you didn't look in mine eyes".

I'm not in favor of corporal punishment.

But at times think that maybe we have allowed ourselves to get caught up in a sea of politically correct mambo-jumbo.

While of course corporal punishment is never allowed in Scouting, and in all the years I have served as an adult leader, I have never felt the need to lay my hands on a child.

I do however wonder if at times we try a little bit too hard to find reasons or try to justify people who are out of line?

I have never sat through any Anger Management classes or victim awareness sessions. (At least not yet!!) So maybe it's unfair for me to comment on how effective these are.

Talking with the Scouts in the Ship, it seems that if the schools hear a word about a student who in any way mutters a word about harming someone or himself, they pack him off to a local hospital to see the mental health professionals. In the light of shootings at schools this might be a good thing.

The school district has a special class room where disruptive students are sent, again from talking with the Scouts in the Ship it seems that the main activity in this "Sin Bin" is sleeping. If a student decides that he no longer wants to participate in a class he does what is needed to get sent to this room, where he can take a nap!!

The school district where I live now sends students to the local Justice of the Peace to be dealt with for all sorts of things that back when I was a student and a teacher were dealt with in house.

A student caught with cigarettes or two students fighting are packed of to see the JP. The punishment is normally a fine of some sort, time away from school for the student and time off work for the parent while they attend the hearing. If the fine isn't paid, the parent is held responsible.

I'm not sure what this teaches the student?

I'm sure at times when a Scout gets out of line, my telling him or her not to act like an idiot or just quit it! Is seen by some as not being the correct way of managing the situation and maybe I'm guilty of causing untold harm to their id and have knocked their aura out of place?

Maybe I have violated their constitutional rights?

Maybe they know this?

But then again I'm not sure what else to do!

Eamonn.

 

[Stosh]

I have found that a certain amount of respect goes a long way when dealing with youth. If you expect problems, you usually get it. If you don't expect it, trust the kids, and let them have their choices, you usually don't have too many problems. However, with that being said, there are times when a certain amount of standing toe-to-toe as an equal usually works as well. I find that eye-to-eye contact with a quiet comment such as: "The choice is yours, but if you do that, it may be the last thing you ever do as a scout in this troop." I have only a few rules that must be adhered to and they are spelled out clearly in the beginning of every scout's career with the troop. When minor infractions of those rules occur, comments such as: "That probably wasn't one of the better choices you could have made." or "Next time do you think you'd choose a different option?" often times work well. The focus and responsibility always remains on the scout and the choices he/she makes or doesn't make.

 

Peer-to-peer evaluations of certain circumstances often times help curtail future problems if it is the consensus of the scouts themselves that direct problem solving in a more constructive manner than flying off the handle or threats to other scouts.

 

I just mark it all up to leadership development. Discipline just seems to fall into place behind it and isn't often a problem.

 

Stosh

[Gold Winger]

I believe in love and respect coupled with a large dose of fear, that's the way that my mother kept us in line. We knew that dire things would happen if we got out of line and we never wanted to find out what those dire things might be.

 

The adults that try stuff like, "John, do you really think that it is respectful to pee on my car?" are considered idiots by the youth in question.

[Eamonn]

Gold Winger

While I think I would have worded the point you made a little differently!

Looking back, I'm not sure if I was a good kid? Or if I was just afraid or maybe scared of what the consequences might have been had I got out of line.

My mother wasn't well versed in the bible, but she did know about sparing the rod! Corporal punishment Was on the way out when I went to school, but the school I attended still had it and there was a pecking order, depending on the severity of the misconduct as to which master got to cane you.

I'm happy that those days are gone.

I still don't see myself as being a good person. At times I obey laws and rules not because I think they are right, but out of fear of the consequences.

I'm a little unsure if some (And by no means not all!) Of the youth of today grasp the idea that there is a consequence for what they do? Or if maybe we older folks have gone too far ensuring that there isn't any real consequence?

We at times seem happy to accept and even reward assignments that clearly do not meet any standard. Look for reasons or excuses that make bad behaviour not seem so bad.

A friend of Her Who Must Be Obeyed was talking with us yesterday, saying how tired she was due to the fact that she was up half the night doing her son's senior project for school! I said it would be a cold day in you know where before I'd do such a thing for OJ!

The idea that this kid now thinks that he can get away with not doing something that was his to do and now maybe thinks he has somehow beaten the system, upsets me.

I of course think the mother is a first class twit for doing it! But I of course don't know why she would do something that in my view is so clearly wrong?

At times in the Ship Scouts will tell me that something is "Nearly right"!! They at times think I'm a real pain, when I explain that "Nearly right" is still wrong and isn't acceptable! It doesn't matter if this has to do with navigation or teasing another Scout. If it's not right then it's wrong!

When we are away there is a list of who is to do what, that the youth make. I try not to get involved, but when things are not as they should be, sometimes I have to stick my big nose in. I really am and do try to be nice, but I tend to go to the list and see who hasn't done what they were supposed to do. I point this out to the Boatswain and ask him to see what can be done to put whatever it is that is not right as it should be. A lot of times I hear that "This" isn't fair, or that isn't my fault or even though the list is very clear I hear that it wasn't their job. I would expect this sort of thing from younger Scouts, but have a hard time accepting it from 16 and 17 year olds.

Our female Leader at times wants to jump in and do whatever it is that hasn't been done. She says that she gets fed up with the fuss!! I of course try and tell her that this isn't the way we do things. She really has a hard time allowing the Scouts (One is her Son.) sort things out for themselves and take responsibility for what they are supposed to be doing or have done.

Eamonn.

 

[Eagledad]

Merry Christmas Everyone

 

>>She really has a hard time allowing the Scouts (One is her Son.) sort things out for themselves and take responsibility for what they are supposed to be doing or have done.

[Eamonn]

Hi Barry,

Re: "I am not sure what answer you are looking for,"

Heck!! I'm not sure what the question is!!

I kinda guess that each older generation thinks that the kids of today have things a little to easy and are not as responsible as we might have been.

At times I when things don't go as I think they should, I'm guilty of beating myself up looking at what maybe I failed to do? When in fact any real blame is not mine, but does belong fairly and squarely at the feet of someone not doing what they should have done.

I do of course do my best to remember that we are dealing with young people and while life is better when everyone pulls their weight, doing what they should, this is an educational game where we learn as much from what goes wrong as we do from things that go well.

Eamonn.

[Eagledad]

>>I do of course do my best to remember that we are dealing with young people and while life is better when everyone pulls their weight, doing what they should, this is an educational game where we learn as much from what goes wrong as we do from things that go well.

[Eamonn]

Barry,

Your last post made me smile.

I have a very close and dear friend Larry.

A truly wonderful man.

He finished school at 16 and trained as a tractor mechanic, in Ireland moved to London and worked his tail off. He now own a very large VW and Mercedes dealership in London.

He has two daughters. One is now a medical doctor the other a vet.

Some years back I met with him for a pint. He was having a bad day at home, which he blamed on the fact that he was the only male in the house.

He looked at me with sad brown eyes and said" You know Eamonn even the the darn cats in the house are girls!"

 

I have to say that I really do enjoy having the girls in the ship. Having never had a daughter and only ever having had one son, the girls do add a lot to help make my life more interesting and fun.

Jamie and I will celebrate 25 years of being married in January, we met back in 1977. I know that she has a better understanding of me than I have of her.

As you know I playfully refer to her as SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed. It comes from Rumpole of the Bailey; a series of books written by John Mortimer whose main character is Horace Rumpole, a barrister in London, England. Rumpole always referred to his wife as She Who Must Be Obeyed.

While there are times when I don't know or understand her! I do know and understand how lost I'd be without her.

Eamonn.