Am I Over-reacting?

[OneHour]

My son came home from a recent campout. He was practically in tears as he recounted how one of our newly minted eagle scout called him "mentally retarted." I wrote the boy's father an email asking that young man to apologize, copying our SM and CC. The rest is another story by itself. Am I over-reacting in expecting more out of an eagle scout?

 

1Hour

[evmori]

Ya might wanna let your son bring it up to the SPL or SM himself. Sometimes this produces better results.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[gwd-scouter]

How old is the newly-minted Eagle Scout? The maturity level of a 13-year-old Eagle Scout is much different than that of a 17-year-old Eagle Scout. I'm not saying what he said was appropriate, just wondering.

[OneHour]

16+

[allangr1024]

I look at behavior like this as coming from two possible causes.

 

The first is stupid kid stuff. Boys jockey for position in a group, they boast and they make fun of thier rivals, and they make mock threats in an attempt to look tough before their peers. Little harm is intended although much may be communicated, and it goes away from the boys mind rather quickly.

 

The second is a real propensity for evil. The boy has learned how to hurt others (for whatever resons) and may find he likes it or that he feels the need to inflict pain for survival sake.

 

The real trick is to discern the root of the behavior. The stupid kid stuff scout can be reproved and admonished to do better, to protect the young and inexperienced, and to see hurt from the other guys point of view (walk in the other guys moccasins). The propensity for evil scout is more serious. The adults must determine if he is a danger to the troop, the scouts, and himself. He may need professional help, and this help is beyond the scope and skills of the volunteer scouters.

 

I would say the first step is to gather the facts and go to the scoutmaster. The scoutmaster must meet with the offender. He must determine what he is dealing with. Most of the time the stupid kid stuff scout will only need to be spoken to once, apologies will be offered, and the incident can be put behind you.

 

If the resolution is not forthcoming, then further meetings with the offender need to occur with the scoutmaster, the parents, the committee chairman, and after that, with the district executive.

 

Unfortunately even eagle scouts succumb to the bandering that takes place in a group. We as adults need to get the scouts through this stuff, and on to other things. It is a boy thing, one to live through, and one to learn from.

 

 

[Lisabob]

I think it depends a bit on the other boy's history too. We have a couple of boys in our troop who are well known for being less than kind. One of these is likely to become an Eagle scout within the next year (though I find it hard to swallow, but then all of us are "works in progress"). If I had heard that he was calling people names, I'd be inclined to believe that this boy meant it to be hurtful and mean, because that's how he often behaves toward the younger scouts. In this case, no, I don't think you're over-reacting at all and the SM might want to have a conference with the older boy about his unacceptable behavior, including helping him outline steps to correct this on-going behavior. And then the SM should keep this fellow on a tight leash for a while too.

 

On the other hand, we have some guys who just get a little goofy sometimes, but I doubt they'd ever intentionally hurt a younger scout's feelings by name calling and put downs. Now they might say something dumb and not realize the impact their words had, but they're not generally mean spirited. So if it were one of them, I'd be more inclined to take them aside and quietly let them know that they had really upset little Johnny over there, and they might want to figure out how to apologize. That would probably be all it would take in those cases.

[Eagledad]

Well I understand how you feel. We make a joke of it, but in reality their pain really does hurt us as much as it does them. Just wait until the move out, it only seems to hurt more.

 

Anyways, looking at it from my computer in Oklahoma, you may have taken action too quickly and let emotions dominate the discussion. Do to lack of details, I'm not sure who should lead in resolving the problem, but the two parents probably are the least likely because they have the most emotion invested. Instead I would suggest you call the SM who will be more diplomatic in his approach to find out what is going on. I also agree that I would ask your son to talk with the SPL and/or the SM to seek guidance. I'm sure you are already thinking this way, but as a scout he needs to learn how to start dealing with these things first before he goes to dad for additional help and guidance.

 

As a SM, I certainly would like to talk with the Eagle about this. Once our Scouts start working on their Star, they are told that their behavior is held to a much higher standard because they are the role models and to just expect many conferences because of that.

 

Barry

 

[Oak Tree]

Yeah, as Scoutmaster this is one of the more interesting aspects of the job. I'll go on a campout with twenty-five boys, we'll have a great time all weekend (or so it seems), and then after the boys get home and tell their parents what they experienced, I'll get the feedback. I joke about this with my ASMs and this is one reason why none of them really want my job.

 

And often times, it is something like this - where one isolated comment from a Scout can have a big impact on another Scout. And I certainly want to know if any of the Scouts are having this type of experience. No parent wants their son to have this type of problem, and no Scoutmaster should want this type of thing to happen.

 

Are you over-reacting by wanting to help your son avoid this type of experience? No. But I think you may have started off with too many people on the email. By copying the dad and the SM and the CC, it seems like you're likely to set up a "us vs. them" situation. I would have recommended just going to the SM first and discussing it. Unless I knew the other dad really well, I wouldn't have demanded things from him. Even if you get an apology under these circumstances, I don't think it will really make things better.

 

It's hard to know the context around the remark. Certainly our boys call each other all types of things in a joking manner, and the older Scout may not even recall the remark. Or he may have done it in a typical-for-him hurtful manner. I agree with allangr1024 and Lisabob in this respect.

 

I'm personally not a big fan of the "I expect more from an Eagle Scout" approach. I've seen people beat up Eagle Scouts with that line. I would expect none of my Scouts to say hurtful things to other Scouts, and I'd leave the rank out of it.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, OneHour, how old is your boy?

 

I'm with EagleDad and allangr. Allangr describes what a good SM would do, evaluating the circumstances and tailoring a response to the two boys in question.

 

You're interested in what you as a parent should do.

 

I'd say

 

1) Never use email for something like this, eh? It always requires at least a phone, but preferably a face-to-face meetin'.

 

2) Never go direct to the other parent. As EagleDad says, that's very likely to just blow up, and it breaks down the SM's and the troop's role in mentoring and guiding.

 

3) Dependin' on how old your boy is, and how sensitive, consider the possibility that he may have missed some social cues and taken something harder than was intended. Part of growin' up is learning that stuff, and learning to deal with insults and awkward moments.

 

4) If at all possible, don't take control away from your son. Listen to him. Give him your love. And then give him suggestions on what he should do next (or next time). He's upset because he felt the insult took away his control, his respect in the eyes of others. Don't show him that you agree by taking away control as well. Show him that you think he's strong and smart and can handle such things without you taking charge.

 

5) Quietly, behind the scenes, call the SM and let him/her know what's up, but only after you've calmed down and have put control squarely back in your son's hands. It's a "just so you know" call, not a "I want someone's head" call.

 

Hope dat helps a bit, OneHour

 

Beavah

 

[Its Me]

Am I over-reacting in expecting more out of an eagle scout?

 

No

[Gold Winger]

" The rest is another story by itself. Am I over-reacting in expecting more out of an eagle scout?"

 

No but you're probably over-reacting anyway.

[OneHour]

There is a history with this young man. This is the same young man who had the "mooning" incident that I previously mentioned. This young man picked up a ball and threw at my older son's face at point-blank and full force. This is the same young man who disobeyed my direct instruction not to climb a prohibited area. This is the young man who would do nothing to help the troop setup or tear down. This is the young man who taunted a younger scout in front of me. Am I nit-picking on him? No, various scouts brought these to my attention. Why don't they bring it to the SM? You got me.

 

Face-to-face, sure. Been there and done that! The father (an ASM) defended his son and I mine. Result? Nothing. Copying SM and CC, result ... probably nothing. Why not face-to-face, because I will say something that will be unscoutlike and I will regret!

 

Barry, I have been very diplomatic for the past 3 years, surprising very scoutlike! It came to the point where I do not show up to the campout that the father is on. Why? The father belittles me and patronizes me, but this is not about my relationship with the father.

 

Is it just one point-of-view? No, there were to other scouts there and at least one of them confirmed that the young came over and unprovokingly started to demoralized my son who is 2 years younger. My son became the butt of the joke! Right now, he wants to quit scouting. Was I there? No.

 

Gold Winger ... come to think of it ... I have answered my own question. I am not over-reacting. Every man will have a point where his family comes first!

 

Thanks any way.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

Clearly you're runnin' a bit hot, OneHour. And clearly some "history" has been simmerin' for a while. So goin' back to your original question about over-reacting, I'd say "Yes". Take a break. Give it some room for perspective to form, or just stay away. And most especially, stop fightin' your kid's fights.

 

If your boy is 14 years old, as you indicate, either an old 8th grader or a freshman in high school, he's plenty old enough to deal with an insult on his own without mommy or daddy. And he should be allowed and encouraged to do so! Lookin' at it from what yeh describe, it may be that your intervention and takin' control away from him in the past is really what is handicapping your son in the present. Bein' the butt of a joke should not reduce a 14-year-old to tears and quitting.

 

So I'm back to "show your kid you believe in him - that you think he's smart and strong." Don't fight his fights for him. If he really needs it, give him some pointers (or some good one-liner comebacks). Give him your confidence in him. And let him handle it.

 

Beavah

 

[scoutldr]

Ahhh, the backstory. Kids call each other "retarded" all the time. If I got wrapped around the axle for that, I'd have to quit...that's what kids do. And most of them handle it and move on. But what you describe is a pattern of disrespect and abuse that should not have been allowed to continue, much less been rewarded with an Eagle medal. I would have found a new troop long ago. What's holding you back?

[OneHour]

Beavah I have and still respect your opinions and guidance. I have been very objective about this boy. I do let my son(s) fight their own fight. This is different! This is one I have to take up the issue (not fight). This is an eagle scout, the epitome of the honor that I have been preaching and selling.

 

What you and some others are suggesting is exactly what this boy's father told me before ... "boys will be boys and don't fret over it." I have to beg your pardon, but this is a repeating offender and an eagle scout. If this were another scout and not my son, I would have done the same! Sometimes there is a breaking point where as scoutldr pointed ... a repeating pattern of disrespect and abuse (physically or mentally) should not be allowed to continued. As pointed out that boys will do that ... then where did I miss in the Scout's Oath, Law, Motto that indicated that it is okay to do this? By suggesting for me to teach my son to have a one line comeback makes me (and my son) no better than this scout! I can teach them to demoralize this boy with the best of them, but then I am being a hiprocrite, am I. "Do as I say and not what I do." My love and respect for scouting and its values are what I would like to pass on to my boys and the scouts. I would like to think that the Eagle Scout rank is still worth the values that it is representing! If I am wrong let me know and I will stop selling scouting!

 

YIS,

 

1Hour

 

ps: I have no problems of letting either of my boys take care of themselves. They both are 1 degree black belt in Tae-kwon-do and extremely capable of defending themselves; however, they have been taught by my wife and I to show extreme restraint. My son's tears are for anger because he can't hit back! He is not a "cry baby" as suggested. By the way, he is 13 and 7th grader. My mistake about the 2 years younger ... he is 3 years younger.

 

Have you all ever been picked on and bullied when you were younger? If you have, then you would understand that what may be amusing to others is not too amusing to you. I know it very well when I was his age. I was bullied and prejudiced against because of my size and my race! Because of this, trust me, I teach my sons to be independent and strong. They don't need me to defend them! Their fear is getting my lectures for getting into a fight!(This message has been edited by OneHour)