Some Common Traits of Successful Troops

[Gonzo1]

Acco40 posted a list by Bob White of Common traits of a successful troop, what can we add?

Here is what Acco posted orinally by Bob White:

Some Common Traits of Successful Troops

 

1. Currently trained adults.

2. Leaders wear correct uniform.

3. Scoutmaster concentrates on training Junior Leaders, and knowing the needs and characteristics of each scout.

4. They use the Patrol Method for everything.

5. They follow the contents of the Boy Scout Handbook.

6. The committee supports the decision of the scouts, they dont make decisions for them.

7. They have at least two Assistant Scoutmasters.

8. They recognize scouts three times for each advancement.

9. They DONT use troop meetings as merit badge classes.

10. They plan everything in advance and put it in writing. The difference between a wish and a plan is a plan is written down.

11. The only rules they have are that scouts and leaders follow the Scout Oath and Law.

12. They get outdoors once a month (even if just for a day event)

13. Troop meetings are filled with hands on activities

14. New scouts make First Class, First Year.

15. They keep in contact with Webelos Dens year round.

16. They select leaders they dont recruit them.

17. They participate in District and Council events.

18. They attend Roundtable.

19. Adults smile and play nice together. (If you are not enjoying yourself then neither are the scouts.)

 

How about

#20 Say grace as a patrol before meals.

 

(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

[Beavah]

Yah, guess I don't agree much with that list, eh? O'course, we probably need to agree on what "success" is for a troop. For some, it's gettin' lots of Eagles.

 

For me, I'd say a successful troop means kids finish as independent, thoughtful young men with sound convictions and good moral sense, and enough experience to make that really a part of 'em, not just somethin' that they "say." And they should have developed some fantastic friendships in the program to reinforce that, too.

 

So mine is more like:

 

1. Adults who love workin' with kids.

2. Adults who listen to and respect kids.

3. Adults who are always keepin' the needs of the kids and the goals in mind, and choose the program tools that work for 'em to help them get there.

4. Adults who share a common vision, like the notion of "success" that I defined above, and are committed to gettin' there.

5. Adults who are friends to each other.

6. Adults who never stop learnin' and growin' themselves, and love sharin' a challenge.

7. Adults who love the outdoors.

 

All the rest is details, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Oak Tree]

I'm with Beavah in that I don't care much for this list. Partly because it focuses so much on specific details, and partly because it seems a little bit preachy to me. It focuses too much on methods and not enough on outcomes.

 

1. Currently trained adults. [A reasonable suggestion, but a troop could operate fine with untrained adults.]

2. Leaders wear correct uniform. [Again, I think many troops run well with the leaders only wearing the shirt.]

3. Scoutmaster concentrates on training Junior Leaders, and knowing the needs and characteristics of each scout. [This one I do agree with the first part - the second part can be delegated in large troops.]

4. They use the Patrol Method for everything. [Throwing in the word "everything" makes this sound preachy and unrealistic.]

5. They follow the contents of the Boy Scout Handbook. [Yes, but I sense an implied criticism of any troop that does any variation on any item.]

6. The committee supports the decision of the scouts, they dont make decisions for them. [Again, this is a continuum. The more the boys can do, the better. But this phrasing also seems to criticize any committee that makes any decisions.]

7. They have at least two Assistant Scoutmasters. [A good idea.]

8. They recognize scouts three times for each advancement. [Or twice.]

9. They DONT use troop meetings as merit badge classes. [i know the other thread just beat down the idea of doing merit badges at troop meetings, but most troops do it to some extent. If the PLC plans it and wants to try it, I don't think this is harmful on occasion.]

10. They plan everything in advance and put it in writing. The difference between a wish and a plan is a plan is written down. [A good goal, if a bit pompous sounding.]

11. The only rules they have are that scouts and leaders follow the Scout Oath and Law. [Heaven forbid that troops make even one rule.]

12. They get outdoors once a month (even if just for a day event) [This is a good trait.]

13. Troop meetings are filled with hands on activities. [i like this one.]

14. New scouts make First Class, First Year. [Not a bad target, but I would think it's a bit aggressive.]

15. They keep in contact with Webelos Dens year round. [This does help. But I don't know that I'd require it to be year round.]

16. They select leaders they dont recruit them. [This is just stupid semantic word play.]

17. They participate in District and Council events. [some very successful troops choose to do their own activities.]

18. They attend Roundtable. [Again, not a bad thing, but is this really how to measure successful troops?]

19. Adults smile and play nice together. (If you are not enjoying yourself then neither are the scouts.) [Yes, I agree with this. Although I find the 'play nice' term a bit condescending in this context, but maybe that's just because I've read too many posts from Bob White.]

 

Oak Tree

[Oak Tree]

I attended a class at Philmont this summer, where they had us do a troop assessment. So here, then, are the twenty questions that the BSA asked us in assessing our own troop operation. We answered each question on a scale of 1 to 5. The questionaire was solely for our own benefit.

 

1. Scouts in my troop have a lot of fun in Scouting.

2. One troop-wide activity, usually outdoors, is held every month.

3. High-adventure opportunities are offered each year.

4. Troop meetings are planned in advance, run by the senior patrol leader, and are fun and interesting to the Scouts.

5. A twelve-month program is developed by the patrol leaders council, communicated to the troop, and implemented.

6. The troop goes to summer camp each year.

7. Uniforms are expected for troop meetings and courts of honor, and Scouts wear them with pride.

8. The troop is Scout-run. The SPL runs the meetings. The Scoutmasters primary role is to develop youth leaders.

9. All adult leaders in key troop committee and troop leadership roles (Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmasters) have completed basic training for their positions. Some have completed Wood Badge.

10. Adult leaders are given assignments that keep them active and involved.

11. Scouting is fun for the adult leaders as well as for the Scouts.

12. Communications of the troops activities to Scouts and parents is extensive and varied.

13. The troop follows the First Class in a Year guideline with new Scouts.

14. Immediate recognition is given at troop meetings when Scouts advance.

15. A troop court of honor is held at least three times a year.

16. Scouts regularly achieve the rank of Eagle Scout. Ceremonies are an inspiration to younger Scouts.

17. At least one funding event is held each year. Scouts earn money for their Scout funds, while the troop receives money for troop equipment and operations.

18. Effective recruiting provides the troop with new Scouts each year.

19. The troop has sufficient leadership depth so that no adult leader is overextended or indispensable.

20. The troop regularly earns the Quality Unit Award and meets more than the minimum number of requirements.

 

[mtm25653]

The troop has leaders skilled in outdoor/high adventure activities.

[AvidSM]

Bob White's list makes sense to me.

I would like to add:

21. Holds onto it's older scouts by letting them lead and challeging them with high adventure.

[FScouter]

Challenging Oak Trees comments: It sounds more like you dont like BobWhite, rather than there being anything wrong with his list of successful characteristics.

 

1. Is it better for a troop to operate with untrained adults?

2. Is a uniform shirt better than a complete uniform?

4. What kinds of things should a troop NOT use the patrol method?

5. When should the Boy Scout Handbook NOT be followed?

6. If the troop committee makes decisions Scouts should be making, should that practice not be corrected?

10. A successful troop can operate without a written plan?

16. Successful troops have quality adult leaders, not any warm body. Anybody can be recruited. Quality must be selected from amongst the warm bodies, then recruited to serve.

17+18. I dont believe successful troops operate in a vacuum unto themselves.

[Eagledad]

Bob White was by far the most controversial contributor Ive ever seen in a Scouting forum. His method of persuasion was hammering his doubters into submission. He was a company man to say the least, but he loved Scouting. While he and I didnt agree on many aspects of the scouting program, he knew how to build a successful program.

 

Personally I think we need to first come up with a general description of success. Bob White says some good things, but his list is way to long and it leaves out many troops I consider successful. I like Beavahs list because it pretty much includes most traits Ive seen in most successful troops.

 

From my perspective, a lot of folks say scouting is for the boys, but I think scouting is an adult program to develop boys into citizens of character and leaders of integrity. For an adult program to meet those goals, you have to start with good adults.

 

Barry

 

[FScouter]

Barry makes a very good point. The often-repeated its for the boys is a trite feel-good saying that is really quite shallow and selfish when you think about it. Scouting is an adult program to prepare young people for life. Its more that that too; Scouting makes the world a better place.

[Oak Tree]

Ok, you've got me. You're right, I did not like the way Bob White tried to hammer all opponents into submission. I often found his remarks to be unkind, discourteous, harsh, and condescending. I think his list has some of that attitude.

 

I like Beavah's list a lot better. Bob White's list starts by focusing on all the little things - that while they may be nice, are not the fundamental aspects of a successful troop. For all the numbers you list, FScouter, I'll agree that it's good to do it as the list suggests. But I'm really put off by the condescending attitude that I'm reading into it. And the fact that he leaves out the important things to focus on details just reinforces my impression that he was looking to describe how troops do things wrong.

 

I don't want to argue about the specific points on the list. My point is that a lot of those items are irrelevant. You can be successful with or without them. I think Beavah's list is more likely to correlate with success.

[dan]

I like both lists.

Number 16 and 19 is the same as Beavahs' list, only he put more detail to them.

I would reword Number 14 to say scout are given the opportunity to get 1st class in a year.

I would remove number 18.

 

I would also add that they have at least one TJLT once a year.

 

[Aquila calva]

Well....

 

Troops are for the adults.

 

Scouting is for the Scouts.

 

Have fun Scouting.

[BrentAllen]

Gonzo,

You would have gotten more unbiased feedback if you had left Bob White's name out of it. I personally liked his comments and saw eye to eye with him most of the time.

 

Bob White's list is one you can use to walk in on a couple of Troop meetings and see whether those traits are present. Beavah's would be nearly impossible to figure out.

 

Regarding trained leaders, who here would send their kids to a school with untrained teachers? Why in the world would you send your son to a Troop with untrained leaders?

 

I'll add to the list:

They recognize their guests at functions (usually parents) and allow them to go first for refreshments or meals.

[Aquila]

>>> From my perspective, a lot of folks say scouting is for the boys, but I think scouting is an adult program to develop boys into citizens of character and leaders of integrity. For an adult program to meet those goals, you have to start with good adults.

[Gonzo1]

Thanks for the comments.

 

Brent, I didn't get to know Bob White, so I couldn't know about taking his name out. It seems like a good list of things, Beavah's list is good too. Everyone has good comments.

 

Thanks,

 

Gonzo