How do you get Boy Scout parent to butt out

[local1400]

G, is there a special knot patch for the G.O.B. Network? JK of course. I know we have discussed unit problems before but I am curious are there other troops in your area? And I am sure your son has many friendships within the unit which you obviously would not want ruined for him, but I know what it is like being the new guy and wanting it done right- it's not easy. We don't serve the boys by cutting corners, do we? What do they learn and what does that say about us and the future leaders of my beloved BSA?

[Gonzo1]

Local,

I think it is a granny knot with the rebel flag pattern in the background.

 

Beavah, with his usual wisdom has suggested that I go slow. Sometimes, I'm really aggitated though.

 

[GernBlansten]

Gonzo,

Sounds like you landed in a troop that is incompatible with your idea of a perfect troop. In most situations, a troop getting a dedicated, program minded new leader would be a great thing, but you mentioned one thing that make this situation untenable. Good Ol' Boys. If they are entrenched, you will die a death of a thousand cuts with these guys. From their perspective, you are the unwanted crusader trying to rock the boat. Every transgression from the ideal unit will grate on you, leaving you more and more frustrated and unhappy.

In my opinion, I'd bring up the issues with committee and the SM and see how entrenched they are. If it looks like they aren't gonna budge, then quietly search for another unit. You ain't doing your son any favors keeping him there if you are gonna be so miserable.

[Lisabob]

Yeah, I'm with Gern on that. You have to decide what your baloney threshold is, and whether you can do much to change that (either raise the threshold or reduce the amount of baloney). But you also have to realize that there are no perfect troops out there - or at least, I've never seen one. Some are closer to the BSA "true north" than others, some are a better fit for your son than others, and some deviate in ways that are more or less aligned with your own vision than others.

 

Most of the specific things you've commented about so far are (IMO) relatively minor. That isn't to say I agree with them, or that I think you shouldn't do what you can to change things. But they're not all central to the program. To date, you've mentioned a) parents of a new scout being afraid to let Junior go camping (unfortunate, but ultimately you've done everything you can within reason to change that - he's their son, it's their call). b) a SM with a bit of a weak spine (nothing you can do there, except offer him support for tough choices, and wait til he's not SM anymore). c) this mom/COR "rewarding" her son by "letting" him sleep inside (I'd think peer pressure would have fixed that pretty quickly - talk about being perceived as a "mama's boy!" Adults may not need to say a word to the boy, though I like a few of the comments that may be made "innocently" to the parent). d) some mention of a minor accident a while back including a can of beans in the fire or something along those lines, which turned out not to be the big deal story that it began as.

 

In the short term, the issue of the boy sleeping inside is the big deal because it messes up the patrol method. But the larger issue is the SM. Can you foresee a change, or not? Three options.

1) He's going to carry on the way he has been, regardless of what you try to do to help. Can you live with that or not?

 

2) He's going to make big changes, now that he has you for support, and the committee will either fight him (and you) or they'll accept him (and possibly you). How do you feel about that?

 

3) He'll end up stepping down and maybe you will be the next SM, but given the way you describe the other parents, they won't follow you if that happens. This sounds like a recipe for a real headache to me.

[Gonzo1]

Gern,

There really isn't a "perfect" troop, is there? BUT, there are many that are real close. I wish my son had chosen a different troop, there's one nearby that is rich in history, the whole package. BUT, my son feels welcom here, he likes it and likes the other boys.

 

Lisa,

With encouragement, the SM will come around. He now realizes the benefits of doing 2 night campouts, he must have gotten batteries for his flashlight. Some issues, especially the Good Ol' Boy thing will pass in a couple of years when boys age out, Eagle out, etc. I can be patient and work the SM a little at a time. Most things are indeed fairly minor, but they add up.

 

Thanks,

Gonzo

[GernBlansten]

Gonzo, the challenge to you is do you have the patience and grace to endure the transgressions while you work to rectify the situation? If so, great! Otherwise, you will probably create a situation that could drive the unit in the opposite direction, and in an extreme case, drive a wedge so deep that it destroys it.

[Gonzo1]

I'm patient, but it sure is frustrating.

 

On a different note, troop is going to summer camp (naturally) in a few weeks. The troop will be staying in adirondacks. I reminded the other ASM that those nights don't count for Camping MB and asked if we could get a different capsite so the nights could count, and count for OA as well. The other ASM told me it didn't matter, the SM allows the nights for Camping MB. I told him he can't, that the requirement changed and the other ASM just shrugged.

 

I do love this scouting stuff, but it is frustrating sometimes.

[GernBlansten]

Frustration can be on the other end of spectrum too.

Case in point, one of our scouts was 1 night shy of the OA minimum camping last election. The SM had ruled that our Northern Tiers trip was a long term camp and couldn't be counted. I appealed that it wasn't a resident camp since we broke camp every day and reset every night. No dining hall, no showers, cat holes, LNT, real camping. But he thought because it was 7 contiguous nights, it was a long term camp and didn't qualify. Very frustrating.

[Gonzo1]

Hmm, I suppose that one could go either way, like Philmont, is that "long term" camping. I would agree that Northern Tier is a long trip, but not exactly "long term camp"

 

Thanks,

G

[Oak Tree]

I've got to believe that many units count a week of summer camp in adirondacks as legal camping for the camping merit badge. At the very least, this isn't where I'd draw a line in the sand. Maybe the leader will say that the sentence "You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement" implies that any week outdoors at a BSA camp should count. Maybe they'll say that "under the sky" means being exposed to the weather, and that the Scouts in adirondacks are.

 

It doesn't seem to me that there's much difference in the experience between tents and adirondacks at the typical summer camp. Either way, they're already set up for you. They are big - far bigger than the typical two-man tents used on the rest of the campouts. The experience is so different from regular camping that you're only allowed to use one week of it.

 

Do the boys actually care?

 

If you really push on this issue, I think you're just going to come across as the new anal-retentive parent. Rather than trying to point out where things are going wrong, I'd recommend just helping out to make things better where you can.

 

Oak Tree

[Gonzo1]

OakTree,

I'm trying to be patient and pick the right battles. If the SM is in fact MBC for Camping and he allows it, that's it. Troop is 4 or 5 years old and until NOW and I mean NOW, the troop has not used blue cards. Blue Cards!!!! Today, they are buying blue cards for summer camp and other use. They have been using the MB award card and the cmte thought THAT card was the blue card.

 

Beavah,

my son is indeed having fun adn learning. He'll have mastery of the skills. check PM too.

 

Gonzo

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Troop is 4 or 5 years old and until NOW and I mean NOW, the troop has not used blue cards. Blue Cards!!!!

 

Gonz, man, it seems like yer gettin' all worked up over some small stuff here. I gotta believe there's somethin' else goin' on that you're not telling us.

 

For da record, though, there's no requirement anywhere to use blue cards. They're just an administrative aid. I know several scout camps that don't use 'em, and substitute their own multi-part form instead. I know a bunch of troops that keep track of things in other ways. Printin' out forms from places like meritbadge.com seems pretty popular.

 

All dat matters most places is that someone from the unit submits an advancement report (paper or on-line). Da rest is honor system on the part of the responsible adults, just like rank advancement.

 

Beavah

 

[Dangerville]

Another suggestion: Politely suggest to the parent to get trained (or retrained) in Scouting. The online courses do a great job of teaching patrol method, etc. I would definitely recommend all parents taking ALL of the training available online and at Council events. It's good for them to GET and STAY involved.

 

Danger

[diannasav]

I realize this is a month old post now but as I was searching I came across this. The one thing I noticed that no one mentioned that we do in our troop as a part of the bylaws. All new scouts until they make 1st class must sleep in a troop provided tent using the buddy system. They pick buddy's at the beginning of camp and that is who they stay with that campout, this continues until they reach the range of 1st Class then they have the privledge of using their own tent and sleeping by themselves if they choose, but they still have their buddy and can leave the camp without their buddy in tow.

 

Something else to consider.

[MarkS]

First Class or otherwise, our youth always share tents with a buddy and the buddy must be someone from within their own patrol. The exception is when we have an odd number of boys from a patrol, then the PL gets to decide who gets that extra tent to himself--any guess who that might be? Ahhhh, the privileges of being in charge...

 

Also the SPL and ASPL share a tent too so they have better access to each other to discuss leadership issues and the end of the day and plan for the next.

 

Living together promotes teamwork.(This message has been edited by MarkS)