How do you retain the new scout? ... but mom is over-protective

[Gonzo1]

We had 3 boys cross over into the troop in Feb. One is now a Tenderfoot, the other two miss a few meetings and have not been on any of the three campouts since joining. This evening, while talking to one dad, he said is son Johnny is dropping out. He says it's because his son hasn't gotten anything. I reminded him that Johnny needs to go on the campouts in order to pitch a tent and sleep in it, etc. He kows the memorizations (oath, law, et al) and did the push ups, run etc, bt Johnny hasn't been camping because mom is too over-protective. Dad and nanny agree.

 

Forum members, please help me retain this scout.

 

 

[GernBlansten]

Anyway to get mom to go on a campout or two? Perhaps she just doesn't know what happens on them and little eye opener will loosen the apron strings a bit.

[Gonzo1]

Umm, no. Mom is a princess, only "camps" at resorts. Has a nanny for the 7 month old, housekeeper, etc. Doesn't really cook, and ain't gonna camp. Dad however, came to Webelos Woods last fall, Johnny could go if dad could go, but dad's schedule hasn't allowed it. I'm friends with these folks and still, that isn't good enough. Dad couldn't go on the backpacking trip, he wieghs about 350 pounds, it would have killed him. but, I suggested he come along, stay Friday night, drive to the other campsite and wait, then camp with us there. Work schedule didn't allow it.

 

 

The next one is at a church bckyard as more Webelos cross over and are caming at the church. I'm gonna try to get mom and dad there. 2 weeks laters is Concil owned property camping nearby.

 

Gonzo

 

[GernBlansten]

Yeah, I know the type. Anything under a 500 thread count on the sheets is roughing it. Poor kid. He really could use scouting. Tell pa to loose some of the weight so he can participate. It would do both him and his son a world of good. Drop hints on gastric bypass procedures. Yeah, I know its not nice, but obese people effect their families as much or more than their own health.

[SSScout]

Considerations as they occur to me:::

 

Hold a patrol campout in THEIR backyard (dad should be able to arrange this).

 

Does the boy have a friend or two in the troop? have them come over to visit with the boy, lobby the mom, talk about the fun, pride, etc. Again, dad can facilitate this?

 

Make sure the mom is included in Committee things. Ask her to help plan something. Be in charge of the "welcome home" picnic, perhaps.

 

Good Scouting to you!

 

 

[Hunt]

Sometimes there's a problem if the first couple of events are (or seem) too challenging for new scouts. For example, if the first outing is a backpacker or a canoe trip, Mom may not want the new boy to go. The campout at the church sounds like a good beginning event. My son's troop generally has an "advancement" campout (car camping) when there are a number of new scouts.

[Lisabob]

You said you know the dad. Does anybody else (or their wife, their sister, somebody) know the mom? Because it doesn't sound to me like you have a big chance of convincing her unless someone she already knows is talking directly to her, not through dad or the nanny.

 

If there's someone who has a personal connection to "mom," see if they can find out what she is afraid of. Is it that the camp out sounds too challenging as Hunt suggested? Is it wildlife issues? (which are usually not founded on fact and so are fairly easy to dispel) Is it that Johnny scout might be asked to do his own cooking and cleaning (gasp)? Is it child abductors? Is it supervision issues? (we continually stress independence, and parents sometimes wonder how we can allow a boy to be independent while still ensuring his safety. They wrongly assume "independence" means a "free for all with no supervision.")

 

Once someone she already knows and trusts understands what the problem is from her perspective, then and only then do you have a chance of addressing it to "mom's" satisfaction. And maybe you won't be able to, or maybe she just doesn't want her son to get his hands dirty or something equally unfortunate.

 

 

[FScouter]

There's several rank requirments he can earn without going camping. Work on those so he can "get" them signed off. If the troop used the leather recognition totem with beads, he could "get" a green, white, or red bead for every requirement completed.

 

Meanwhile, if the mom knew the adult leaders better, she would feel more comfortable turning over her beloved baby to their care for a weekend. Go out of your way to talk with her and get to know her.

[Gonzo1]

Ok, here are the events (in short)

Cross over Feb 5, earned Scout Badge same night.

 

Mar 2,3,4 Car camping at committee members "farm" 70 miles away, Johnny couldn't go because it was "too far", she said "that's south of Atlanta, he can't go that far"

 

Apr 20,21, 22 Camp-o-ree, again, car camping, at nearby county fairgrounds, couldn't go,, dad couldn' go, therefore son couldn't go.

 

May 4,5,6 backpacking, only 7 miles. Mom said "he would have to filter is water, oh no, he might get sick, what about snakes? he could get bit by a snake, then what? he can't go." I suggested that his dad do as described above. Johnny still can't go.

 

I know both parents, Johnny and Mason have their sleep overs at each other's houses all the time. They're buddies. I just don't want to be pushy and have the reverse affect, I also don't want to seem like I don't care.

 

Next outing is the next cross over where the pack will have B&G, Cross over, AOL and family camping all at one time. The troop is invited to camp, IT WILL BE IN THE BACKYARD OF A LOCAL CHURCH! I bet he still can't go.

 

Edited part:

Here's the odd thing, mom lets Johnny do Karate, he's almost a black belt and lets him play football! Football? He could get seriously hurt playing football, but he can't go camping.

(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

[SemperParatus]

Mom won't camp. Dad can't camp. How 'bout the nanny?

 

Since you know them well, why not play a guilt card. "I will look after Johnny like he is my own son. No? What's the matter, don't you trust me?"

[MarkS]

I don't think it is right to hold back a boy because of his parents. If Johnny's parents are not allowing him to camp, should he be held back? You should definitely encourage him to go camping and press his parents to allow him to go, but you can not force them. We are trying to build better boys and to hold one back because his parents are over protective seems to go against the BSA way.

 

Suggest looking at allowing the boy to complete alternative requirements in place of camping for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class as is done with some physically or mentally challenged boys. That may allow the boy to retain interest because he is advancing and give you time to help the parents gain confidence in your program. Once you get the umbilical cord cut, you can decide then if he needs to complete the camping requirements before advancing to Star Rank. Another thing to consider with this suggestion is whether or not your troop sets a specific rank as an eligibility requirement for a boy to be elected as a PL. You really don't want a boy who won't camp to be a PL. It will adversely affect the boys in his patrol too much when they go camping.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[FScouter]

That's it, they don't trust the adult leaders.

 

If dad cared enough, he would make room in his schedule to attend a campout. (Everybody has control over their schedule.) He may only have to do it once to convince mom everything is OK with the adult leadership.

[Lisabob]

OK so this might not work, depending on how well you really know them and how open they will be to honest discussion. But maybe...what about simply telling them that boy scouting is all ABOUT learning to be independent and facing (age-appropriate) challenges? By refusing to let her boy do these activities, mom is actually keeping him from developing his own self confidence, skill, and judgment - all of which he will need later in life when she can't always be there to smooth the way for him. Of course she isn't doing so intentionally - everyone understands that all parents want to keep their children safe. But perfect safety means never having new adventures or being able to learn from experience, or growing up. Does she really want her son to remain a helpless little child his whole life?

 

Now maybe that'll work, maybe it won't, and it depends an awful lot on mom's personality and your relationship with the family, so proceed with caution. But sometimes laying it on the line is what it takes for parents to realize that, in their understandable desire just to protect the children they love, they are actually doing them a big dis-service.

[eagle90]

Mark S, I hate to disagree with you, but in no way should alternate reqquirements be used just because mommy doesn't want her baby to camp. Not only is it not fair to the other scouts in the unit, it is an insult to those who truly need the alternate requirements. Scouting is not for every family and we cannot save everyone.

[anarchist]

Way to go, Eagle90...!

 

to gonzo...at what cost to your program should you go to retain this scout?

 

I've been wondering whats next...So there it is... Let's "dumb-down" the outdoor program because we have parents afraid of "dirt" or snakes or rain...whatever,(you pick).

 

This is scouting...offer the program and move on...I still remember the cringe on our SM's face several years ago when I was describing an upcoming shakedown camp for NSPs and a "princess mom" pointed out..."don't you know there are copperheads there?!?"...slight pause...I replied (looking dead at her) "Yep, and in the last seven years we haven't lost a snake yet"....

 

Talk to the dad, talk to the mom, make it very clear that this is Boy Scouting and advancement requires outdoor participation. Have the boy's friends (if he has any...moms like this can do a number on friendships). work on him to go on camps so he will work on mom. Let them know that you (and scouting) do a lot to safeguard "Jr.".

 

If you can't win it, you move on- but don't sell everyother boy in the troop efforts short...they do "it", and so should every other hale and hearty boy...or are we going to declare "overly protected" the next "handicap"?

 

We had a scout in my older son's patrol a few years ago who was lagging behind in outdoor participation and advancement...hit 14, then 15 without ever doing any of our high adventure stuff- Car camping (with dad in tow) was ok but no long hikes, no caving, no sea base and the real kicker no 100 miler canoe trip (the sorta "coming of age-mile-stone" in our troop).

 

This boy was big, tall and hefty, a strong swimmer and it was always a wonder why he was light on the outdoor program. It seemed there were frequent "conflicting" family obligations) Turned out that mom was afraid her baby would get hurt.

 

Finally his "buds" put enough presure on him to try a couple of overnight canoe trips...BTW-His dad did have to make time to go along...(heavy man out of shape...the effort darn near killed him on on a portaging trip). But the boy seemed to have a great time...Then in his "16th year" his buds really went to work on him to sign up for the hundred miler...It was nip and tuck for a while but finally he "gave in" and signed up.

Turns out, I found out while we were on the river, that the trip really "cost" the boy a lot. He was quite a good musician and dear ol' mom had offered to buy him the "guitar of his dreams" - BUT ONLY IF HE DID NOT GO ON THE WEEK LONG RIVER TRIP!

 

I am happy to say his friends won out...he went; he had a great time and made several more of the trips, started advancing and "Eagled" out the month before his 18th...At his Eagle board he credited his "buds" with getting him to challenge himself and cut the cords...

 

I am firmly with Eagle90-Do not dumb down your outdoor

program. Sometimes we lose sight of the fact (trying to keep those numbers up?) that while Scouting is for every boy...sometimes every boy isn't for scouting.

 

If dad wants to pull "jr" because you won't "give" him advancement...it should not be your worry...caving and letting the rest of your troop see that not everyone has to pull the same duty to advance should be.

Anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)