How to get kids (and adults) to stop

[kittle]

cursing and carrying on? It is really beginning to bother my son. He says that they curse so much that it gets stuck in his head for a week or 2 after campouts. There are other things that bother him too, but he doesn't know what to do about them.

 

I know that boys will be boys, but do they have to be rude also?

 

I really like the things that Boy Scouts teaches my son about becoming a man. But some of these things are not how I am trying to raise my son.

 

I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

[scoutldr]

Unfortunately, it's the culture today. Kids hear 4 letter words and worse from a very young age on TV, in their music, in the movies, at home and in school. To them, it's nothing.

[stevejb]

(I write this knowing, and fearing, the replies I am going to receive.)

 

I do not have too many problems with the boys using bad language in my troop. When a boy joins the troop I sit down with him AND his parents and explain that bad language will not be tolerated in the troop. If a boy, or adult leader for that matter, uses some bad language then he is on the ground doing 15 push-ups. The parents know we do this and have always supported it. The boys learn to watch their language, and they listen to each other, sort of self police themselves. Only the adult leaders can have the boys do push-ups, not the youth leaders. And a few times a year I like to do a scoutmaster minute about how using bad language and name-calling does not have a place within the Scouting program.

 

It is actually quite amazing that if the boys know what is expected of them, and the adults also act by the same standards, then bad language is easlily kept to a minimum. And yes, I was caught once and did push-ups myself. The boys were running around camp trying to find the camera only to watch me pull it out of my pocket when I was done.

 

Now, before those of you Scouting police start writing nasty replies to this, keep in mind that the parents know about this policy. The boys accept it and realize the rule is there to keep everyone is good spirits and in a verbally safer enviroment. I also realize that this rule would not work for many other troops out there, but is does work in ours and has worked for over twenty years.

 

Also, I do not allow the other boys to make fun of the one who happens to be doing the push-ups. The "jokesters" have been known to join in doing push-ups. Thus the boys learn not to make fun of someone who slipped up. After all, they may be the next one. I do not want the push-up to turn into a humilation event, and we do our best to keep it from happening. To tell the truth, once a Scout has been a member for a few years all it takes is a look from me with nothing to be said, and the Scout will do the push-ups on his own. Like I said, the boys except the consequence for their actions.

 

Of course, we as adults, and parents, need to first set the example for the boys to live by. If we use bad language ourselves then we have no right to tell the boys not to use it.

[evmori]

We do not allow cursing by anyone. If the adults and/or Scouts don't comply, they are dealt with. You might want to find a new unit. Sounds like this one is nor going to change.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Easter to all!

[ajmako]

kittle: I know that boys will be boys, but do they have to be rude also?

 

Kittle, boys may be boys, but Scouts aren't just boys. If their behavior is rude, inappropriate, or even offensive, they are just boys, not Scouts.

 

What can be done about it? My advice is to sit down with your son and make a list of the things that bother him. Look over the list and evaluate each item according to the Scout Oath and Law. Anything that doesn't pass all twelve points of the Scout Law and all of the parts of the Promise, is un-Scout-like. Take your concerns to the Scoumaster and talk to him (your son can do this on his own, or you and he can together). Be honest about how these things make you and your son feel.

 

The Scoutmaster should thank you and proceed to do something about the bad behavior. If he just shrugs his shoulders and says "boys will be boys" you've only got two options:

 

1) start a campaign to change the culture of the troop; or

2) run away and start looking for another troop.

 

A Scout leader who isn't concerned about a Scout's concerns isn't focused on the right thing. A Scout leader who isn't concerned about the behavior of his/her Scouts isn't doing the job.

[Eamonn]

As a parent and a Scouter I (Not the Ship or any group) have things which I deem to be unacceptable.

I'm willing to allow horseplay and carrying on to a point. In fact I see some horseplay and carrying on as being part of being a kid.

Just because a boy or girl wears a BSA uniform does not mean that they have sprouted wings! The A in BSA doesn't stand for Angelic!!

Some behaviour is totally unacceptable and does need to be dealt with by the Unit Committee.

Some might call for the SM to call the offender to one side for a word in his or her ear.

I'm not big on lists of rules and that sort of thing and am happy to use the Scout Oath and Law as my yardstick.

There are times when maybe the utterance of a not so nice word can be ignored. I see this as being a lot different than using bad words and name calling as a regular thing.Which can't be allowed.

Maybe you should find a way to bring this to the attention of the Troop Committee and the Leadership Team.

If it was brought to my attention. My first thing would be to take a look at Why?

Why is this happening?

A lot of horse play is the result of Scouts having nothing else to do.

If this is the case again the question why comes up.

Is this due to poor planning? Are the activities the Scouts face too easy? Or too hard?

I'm a very firm believer that the devil does find work for idle hands.

I don't agree with stevejb and the push up idea, this just isn't the way we do things. I don't care if it works or not. I do agree with talking to the Scouts as a group and explaining why this sort of behaviour isn't acceptable. As a rule I have found that once I have asked and explained why we don't allow or accept this, the Scouts buy into it.

All the adults are supposed to be setting a good example, if it seems that they are unable to do this? Maybe the time to look for a Troop with better leadership is needed? Of course maybe they don't realize that they are doing it and a word in their ear is what is needed?

I would be very careful as a parent to not allow my kid to come off as some kind of little angel!!

Not only do I know that he isn't and can at times be as big a little toad as any other Scout.

I don't buy into the "it gets stuck in his head for a week or 2 after campouts." Idea.

It only gets stuck if he allows it to stick!!

Boys will be boys and the son's of Scouter's qualify as being boys our job as leaders is to try and channel that energy into them doing something useful with it.

We do that by providing a program that they think is worthwhile, fun, adventurous and challenging.

If bad behaviour and lack of respect has been allowed to become the norm in the unit? It isn't going to be a quick fix. It will take time to kinda work its way out and will require every part of the unit to work toward getting rid of it.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[BSAT17SPL]

Have your son go to the his Patrol Leader first. Scouting is a scout run organization and we adults are here to make sure that things run smoothly. If your son is not satisified go to the Senior Patrol Leader next and not only express his problem but express the fact that his PL did no do anything about the problem. Finally he should go to the scoutmaster. If all else fails then you could go and speak with the Committee Chair and voice your concern on the whole incident.

[Stosh]

A Scout is Courteous - that should take care of the vocabulary problems.

 

A Scout is Kind - that should take care of the name-calling problems.

 

A Scout is Clean - including one's mouth....

 

A Scout is Reverent - Speaks for itself

 

Not a problem, when it comes to signing off on Scout Spirit, a discussion can be held on this at the appropriate time with each scout that insists that bad and/or abusive language and name-calling is no big deal and boys will be boys. Well, we're suppose to be making men here, not boys.

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC]

I agree with jblake here.

 

I would also state that as a Committeeman and a parent, the issue of cursing is appropriate for new business at a Troop Committee meeting. The SM is the program officer, if he is taking hits over something relatively simple to fix, he'll get the point.

 

If the SM doesn't get the point, there are quite possbily other and bigger problems in the Troop.... and it's time to look at moving on.

[Eamonn]

"Well, we're suppose to be making men here, not boys."

Have to admit to never knowing what this "Making Men" thing is all about.

"then he is on the ground doing 15 push-ups" Might be seen as making boys into men?

 

I can train a dog by installing fear into him or her.

Of course being that I love dogs, I much prefer to teach the dog that when he does what I want him to do he will get rewarded by a kindly pet and kind words.

Boys will grow into men without any help from us!

I'm not in any rush to see the Scouts I serve become Men or Women. I'm happy that they are young and I want them to enjoy being young.

Making Boys into men is not the same as

preparing young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

My goal is for a Scout not to do the stuff that he or she shouldn't be doing because they know that they shouldn't be doing it -Even if they can!

A Scout who decides not to use bad language because it's wrong and because he shouldn't is very different from a Scout who decides not to use bad language because he will end up in front of the Troop looking like a twit doing push-ups.

One way is right and the other is just plain wrong.

I'm happy to do my best to help build youth into quality citizens by: Building Character,

Fostering Citizenship,Promoting Fitness.

Scouting aims to build self-confidence, problem solving, compassion, acceptance of personal responsibility, and leadership skills within each Scout. This allows the individual boy well prepared for life in an adult world.

We spend a lot of time talking about building character.

I think when we talk about building character we mean the qualities of a person that makes him self-sufficient, motivated, charitable, concerned for others, and willing to accept the responsibilities placed before him.

Last time I looked this was still the Boy Scouts Of America. -Not the Men Scouts of America.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ozemu]

People swear for different reasons.

 

it's 'cool'

 

it' socially unacceptable (in many places) and therefore really attractive to rebellious teens - you know, the ones who gainsay pretty much everything and have nothing positive to say

 

they have hit their thumb with a hammer - maybe

 

their home life is full of swearing. There is not much we can do there except show and enforce that we behave to suit the environment. ie Pls don't swear at Scout events.

 

to add emphasis (not the best way but vocabulary is limited for many teens - evidence my son 'ug, ummph and nuarghh')

 

to be upsetting

 

why are the Scouts in your sons Troop swearing?

 

Regardless I ask people 'to swear more quietly'. Not being a prohibition it normally lets the offender know that it is not admired, is unwarranted, and that I want to hear them saying other things.

 

Mind you I have heard some extraordinary things from all sorts of mouths when people jump off high rope elements (Pamper Pole for instance). I ignore that. People are under a lot of pressure up there.

 

When I was an Army officer I swore. But only at work. My soldiers couldn't relax in my company until I started swearing. They thought I was an odd ball and didn't trust my motivation (thought I was going to preach to them). So I started swearing and they were alright. They came from a different social background I suppose. My parents were very poor farmers. They were mostly city people from poor areas. You see, in that environment most of the swearing replaces words like 'very, really, horribly, hugely, extraordinarily, oddly, queerly, bafflingly, questionably, superbly, amazingly etc. Instead they had just four words - three of which had four letters.

 

When I left the army I asked the kids I worked with to pull me up if I slipped into army language. Never happened. Different environment. So I try to teach how to adapt to environments and to be flexible.

[Stosh]

"Well, we're suppose to be making men here, not boys."

Have to admit to never knowing what this "Making Men" thing is all about."

 

>>> You're kidding right?

 

"then he is on the ground doing 15 push-ups" Might be seen as making boys into men?

 

I can train a dog by installing fear into him or her.

Of course being that I love dogs, I much prefer to teach the dog that when he does what I want him to do he will get rewarded by a kindly pet and kind words.

Boys will grow into men without any help from us!

 

>>>> If you really believe this then BSA is wasting an awful lot of time. And why is it that I come across 45 year old boys every day of my life?

 

I'm not in any rush to see the Scouts I serve become Men or Women. I'm happy that they are young and I want them to enjoy being young.

Making Boys into men is not the same as

preparing young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

My goal is for a Scout not to do the stuff that he or she shouldn't be doing because they know that they shouldn't be doing it -Even if they can!

A Scout who decides not to use bad language because it's wrong and because he shouldn't is very different from a Scout who decides not to use bad language because he will end up in front of the Troop looking like a twit doing push-ups.

One way is right and the other is just plain wrong.

I'm happy to do my best to help build youth into quality citizens by: Building Character,

Fostering Citizenship,Promoting Fitness.

Scouting aims to build self-confidence, problem solving, compassion, acceptance of personal responsibility, and leadership skills within each Scout. This allows the individual boy well prepared for life in an adult world.

 

 

>>>>> LOL and what do you think making men out of boys means if it doesn't mean just exactly what you just said?

 

We spend a lot of time talking about building character.

I think when we talk about building character we mean the qualities of a person that makes him self-sufficient, motivated, charitable, concerned for others, and willing to accept the responsibilities placed before him.

Last time I looked this was still the Boy Scouts Of America. -Not the Men Scouts of America.

Eamonn.

 

>>>> Gotta love it! You don't make men out of boys, but we all take them in as wide-eyed tiger cubs boys and watch them step into adulthood as mature, confident adults (i.e. adults?) on their 18th birthday?

 

I've worked with boys in the scouting program for many years now and when they cross over into adulthood when they finally age out of scouting, they are men. We have done our job of making man out of a boy. B-P calls it citizenship. By the way, I have had a number of men younger than 18 in my scouting units over the years. On the other hand I have seen some of the boys I've had over the years many years later still not showing signs of adulthood in their lives. None of those ever made it to Eagle.

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

Cursing should not be tolerated. Demand that Troop Leadership make immediate changes (and attitudes) or go find another Troop. Cursing will happen on occassion, but habitual "potty mouths" should not be tolerated. This does not belong in the Boy Scouts for obvious reasons.

 

 

[ajmako]

So the question is, what exactly does doing push-ups accomplish? Forgive me, the question is rhetorical. Speaking only for myself, one who once believed firmly in something called "Scout Law Push-ups," I have found there are far more effective means of reaching a young man.

 

Doing push-ups certainly focuses attention on the offender, showing that there are dire consequences for bad behavior. But then we run afoul of that whole thing about praising in public and criticizing in private. Doing push-ups certainly works toward one of the three aims (or an aspect of the one aim if you're inclined that way). But then we sort of send a confusing message--fitness is a form of punishment.

 

Steve, I understand your reasoning, but I think if you try you might find the things you do will work without the push-ups. Here's how:

 

stevejb: When a boy joins the troop I sit down with him AND his parents and explain that bad language will not be tolerated in the troop.

 

Right from the start you are establishing standards of behavior and communicating them to the Scout and his parents. You are telling them what is expected, and essentially defining "Scout Spirit" for them. Most likely at the same meeting, or another with just the Scout, you go over the joining requirements. At that point the Scout begins putting things together. There's the Oath that says "On my honor I will do my best..." There's the Law that tells him all the things he must be in order to be worthy of being called "Scout." There's the SM, not just laying down the law and clearly defining expectations, but actually sounding encouraging and confident. The Scout gets the idea that you seem to know he can do what's expected.

 

No doubt, when the offender is "charged and sentenced" or after he does his "penance" you have a little talk with him about why what he did was wrong, etc. The basics of that conversation are probably something to the effect: "You know what you did wrong; I'm disappointed in you, but I know you can de better; go do better." And as you say: "once a Scout has been a member for a few years all it takes is a look from me with nothing to be said, and the Scout will do the push-ups on his own."

 

In my experience, it's not the push-ups doing that. In fact, if you took the push-ups away you'd probably get the same result. You get that result because you make it clear from the start that the Ideals of Scouting mean something, that "honor" means something, and the boy is expected to do his best to be worthy of the name "Scout." That little talk, that disappointed look, are all you really need.

 

Just something to think about.

 

>>Have your son go to the his Patrol Leader first.

[kittle]

Thanks for all the replies. I will share them with my son. Going to his PL isn't going to be an option (he is one of them). I'm not sure about the SPL, I will have to ask him.

 

I will say that another Troop isn't really an option. We already drive 20 miles (25 minutes). The other Troop that would be an option is about 20 miles (and 30 minutes).