name calling again

[Lisabob]

I need to voice a little bit of frustration here. Why is it that 11-12-13 year old boys seem to believe that the way to "lead" or assert power is to call each other names, use foul language, engage in incessant conjecture about other people's sexual preferences, put downs, etc.? I'm not talking about a gentle joking-as-inclusion sort of way, I'm talking about nasty stuff here. And at what age do they begin to outgrow this?

 

We've had a number of talks in the last year in the troop about bullying. We've had a couple of younger scouts (new cross overs) leave the troop. We've had a few more come close. Every time I think we've sort of pounded it into the guys' heads I am disabused of that notion by some fresh incident. Most recently today I got an earful from my son about some things that were said at his last campout. Unfortunately, while my son and another boy apparently were the targets, they also admit that they flung some rather undesirable rejoinders back, thus escalating the situation and removing them from the high ground. There are some "ring leader" types of boys in this situation (two brothers in two different patrols) but I cannot realistically say it is only those boys who are doing it. It seems like this is the way middle school aged boys treat each other.

 

Among parents there is a division between those who think "boys will be boys" and that some are just too thin skinned on one hand, and those who are appalled at this sort of incessant behavior (often just under the surface until all of a sudden, things explode) on the other hand.

 

What do you do that works? Maybe there isn't much that works. I know we've talked about this before on this forum, I'm just feeling frustrated is all.

[DugNevius]

Its part of boys growing up. At that age they are hitting puberty and part of that is the new influx of testosterone which makes guys aggressive. They are building a pecking order and the put downs and name calling is both part of a bonding experience as well as a way of establishing rank. This competitive aggression is natural and unavoidable, but the way it is focusing and manifesting is. Focus it in other ways like sports while re-enforcing the rules yur troop has concerning put downs and swearing.

[local1400]

"And at what age do they begin to outgrow this?" When we can't remember what it is we call them.

[Stosh]

This type of behavior is a direct result of changes that have been occuring in our culture in the past few years. A decline in tolerance, diplomacy and tact have been reflective of an increase in coersion, bullying and violent force to "motivate" people. This establishes the environment of fear in which these people have the upper hand.

 

Unless specific leadership training occurs and is reinforced with appropriate examples, this problem will continue and fragmentation of units (and society in general) will continue it's negative spiral.

 

There are leadership styles that promote espirit-de-corps rather than fear to motivate the members of the "team".

 

Once we overcome the drive for competetive assertion and begin reinforcing cooperation and balanced value of team members, an opportunity for your leaders to step up will naturally follow.

 

Name calling and bullying are normal in the adolescent years and eventually go away when the person realizes it is not accomplishing what they were intended to do. However, more and more this behavior does continue to produce desired results and so is reinforced promoting a more violent coersion of team members. Resentment and voting with the feet will eventually tear the group apart and the bully will merely seek another group to influence. As long as such behavior is not confronted, it will continue indefinitely. There are a lot of people who never grow out of such behavior.

 

Once people realize there are more effective behaviors and produce a more productive result, the adolescent will mature and change accepting these more effective means to leadership.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

Some of it is boys being boys. But when it starts to get nasty, that's not boys being boys.

 

Boys this age are "claiming" their ground. They want to be tough & sometimes name calling is the way they try to bet tough. There are no hard & fast rules on how to handle this. It is strictly case by case.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[jr56]

Yes, unfortunately many middle school boys go through this phase in their development. Usually when they get 2-3 years into high school they develop more of their own self esteem and abandon this type of behavior. Yes there are a few individuals that don't outgrow it. As Ed said, take it on a case by case basis, and continue to reinforce positive behavior type roles. Usually, having an older youth tell them undesirable affects of that behavior is much more effective than anything an adult will do or say.

[scoutldr]

Some never outgrow it.

[Trevorum]

DugNevius nailed this one right out of the gate.

 

IMHO, this stuff is biologically programmed into males and one sees it in all kinds of social animals. Layered on top of that of course is the garbage that passes for popular culture these days. As parents and Scout leaders, our job is to set and enforce limits for unacceptable behaviors while understanding that males behave differently than females.

[Aquila calva]

The newer version of the Youth Protection video A Time to Tell has a really good segment on bullying. If you havent seen it yet, show it to your whole troop, with parents present. It may help your situation.

 

It is never OK to be a bully, testosterone or no testosterone.

 

Recognize, Resist, Report.

 

There is This boy and that boy. Never Boys will be boys.

 

They are all unique. We are all unique.

 

[MarkS]

Keep track of the incursions... write them down... and make it a policy to use this behavior as one criteria for determining whether or not a Scout has demonstrated the appropriate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in his everyday life. If in the judgement of your Scoutmaster the Scout has passed the threshold of failing to demonstrate the appropriate Scout spirit, he can choose to not sign off on that advancement requirement for the Scout (recall that every rank has this requirement except Tenderfoot). That's why he's paid the big bucks.

 

The members of the BOR can also choose to decide that a Scout failed to meet the requirement when it's their turn to verify he's completed the requirements of advancement.

 

If the Scouts realize that their behavior can adversely affect their ability to advance, maybe they'll behave.

[evmori]

While bullying should not be tolerated, not all name calling is bullying.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Stosh]

Name calling isn't bullying?

 

Name calling is always a form of belittling and belittling is the #1 goal of a bully. A good bully can intimidate and belittle with a look and doesn't have to even say a word. Any such "dirty looks", name calling, or physical intimidation are strictly forbidden in our troop. If the boys can't come and feel encouraged and a valued part of the team/patrol/troop, then something's going to be done to correct the problem.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

Please read what was posted!

 

Not all name calling is bullying

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

While I agree, Ed, that it isn't always bullying, in this case I believe it was. The boys who were doing this tend to gang up on one or two others (not always the same one or two others) and make it a very unpleasant atmosphere. You know at this age having your sexuality called into question - repeatedly and in graphic detail using some pretty nasty suggestions about who, what, and where - is probably one of the worst things that can happen to a boy, not to mention just being rude and inappropriate. Add to it an unwillingness to cooperate on anything that the targets are trying to do from cooking to taking tents down, constant criticism, swearing, and just generally berating the victims. This is from people in the same patrol. I know if it were me I'd have a very hard time trusting these guys in the future when we were supposed to work together.

 

As a parent I admit that I'm so tempted to deal with this by calling these boys' mothers and letting them know what their little darlings were doing. I've known their moms for 5 or 6 years and I think they'd be most unhappy to hear it. On the other hand I think my son would be absolutely mortified if I did that and I'm trying to respect that he wants to handle it himself. Also, I'm not happy that he and the other boy being targeted responded in kind. We've discussed that. From his view though he felt he had no good options. Largely due to the way schools around here paper over these issues with ineffective "anti bullying" programs, he doesn't trust the adults in charge to take the problem seriously or to be able to "fix" it. And he might be right too. Even assuming the best intentions, adults cannot be everywhere, even less so in scouting. As for the the senior youth leadership of the troop, they were pretty much absent on this last campout too and the few older youth who were there are the types who are more likely to join in than put a stop to it.

 

Delaying advancement is an option but it is a long-range consequence when I think shorter-term responses are necessary in order to effect change in behavior. You bet, though, that this is something that will be in my mind when scouts come up for advancement. I don't know what I would advocate that the troop do - I'm just unhappy to find we keep dealing with this same issue over and over again.

 

And you know what really gets me? One of the instigators is mad because once again he wasn't elected to be PL! You'd think the cause and effect relationship might start to sink in here after a while.

 

 

 

[Stosh]

I did read the post.

 

Please provide an example where name calling is not bullying. Please also include what bullying is defined to be.

 

Stosh