Bad language

[SR540Beaver]

"Along these lines, how do you handle scouts saying, "frick" or "frickin?""

 

For me, it is just a substitute for the F word, so I tend to treat it the same. Of course, heck and darn are substitutes for inappropriate words too, but are so commonplace that we don't bat an eye.

[evmori]

Barry,

 

Under normal circumstances, any use of the F word and ya get to ride home early with mom or dad. In this instance, it seemed the language was an attempt to be sent home.

 

Frickin is the same as Oh my G**!. We try to curb the improper use of our Lord's name as well as words like frikin. On camping trips, we have a cuss cup. Frickin cost a quarter.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

I think this is a tough issue, because what constitutes "bad language" is a moving target. A prime example is "that sucks," which has different connotations depending on your age. Also, I'm not sure words like "frickin'" should be punished--maybe we really would prefer that bad words morph into more benign ones. After all, we're probably not concerned if somebody says "darn" or "doggone" or "dadburn." Maybe "frickin'" just isn't morphed enough, but "flippin'" is OK. Perhaps this is a situation in which bright-line rules are not the answer, but discussions of how language fits in with the values of the Oath and Law...some boys will actually learn something from the discussions, and others will clean up their language to avoid the discussions.

[OldGreyEagle]

Trying to decide which words are acceptable will drive you looney, if you adopt the principle that the scouts can use the vocabulary of a designated scouter(s) then you dont have to worry about it, providing of course the designee's can control their lexicon of spoken words.

 

Never had much use for a "cuss cup" the existence of a "cuss cup" tells the scout while cussing is not proper, its expected and everything is ok as long as you pay your quarter. So, at the college interview, the scout says "I really want to get in here, it's such a great F***ing school, oops, where is your cuss cup, I owe a quarter"(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[evmori]

Never had much use for a "cuss cup" the existence of a "cuss cup" tells the scout while cussing is not proper, its expected and everything is ok as long as you pay your quarter. So, at the college interview, the scout says "I really want to get in here, it's such a great F***ing school, oops, where is your cuss cup, I owe a quarter"

 

Cussing is never expected & it's not OK even if it cost you a quarter. Anyone thinking along this line is absurd.

 

Actually, the purpose of the cuss cup is to deter cussing. And in all the years we have used it, the cussing as decreased to the point of it no longer being necessary.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Wow, a difference of opinion, who knew?

[Eagledad]

>>Actually, the purpose of the cuss cup is to deter cussing. And in all the years we have used it, the cussing as decreased to the point of it no longer being necessary.

[Hunt]

"There are words that are not acceptable to some people and we asked everyone (adults and youth) to respect that."

 

I think this is why this can be an opportunity for education, both in sensitivity to others, and in how others perceive us. You never know what language will be taboo. For example, my wife was taught that one never refers to one's mother as "she" or father as "he." I never heard of such a thing, but I find myself telling my kids, "Don't refer to your mother as "she."" They are able to understand that although this kind of expression is OK for most people, it is not OK around their mother.

[kb6jra]

I've had the "frickin", "flippin", faux "F" Word rule for a while in our troop. Using a replacement explitive is still swearing and Swearing is a dirty habbit, like lying, like picking your nose, like other dirty little habbits. It's bad behavior and must not be tollerated or condoned.

 

We, as adult leaders, must set the example. OGE has a pretty good idea. Since we adults must make a conscious effort to promote positive change in our units, it's only right that the boys follow our lead. If you have a language problem, give the boys the same rule OGE did, they may use whatver language a designated member of the adult staff does, or even a young man.

 

I have one boy in my troop who I would recommend to be Pope. He's been one of the most influential members of our unit. Every boy and some adults look up to him. He's simply a very positive, very well mannered, and very popular kid. He sets a high standard, and many try and follow it. I'm very lucky.

 

I make an effort to set a standard as well. Among other things, the language and demenor I bring to the meetings and outings must meet my own expectations of what I expect of the boys, and other adults, too. I give no quarter and if I make a mistake, even if they don't hear it, I appologize in front of them as I would expect them to do.

 

 

[Hunt]

"Using a replacement explitive is still swearing and Swearing is a dirty habbit, like lying, like picking your nose, like other dirty little habbits. It's bad behavior and must not be tollerated or condoned."

 

I can see this as a principle, but where do you draw the line? Dagnabbit? Great Caesar's Ghost? Goodness gracious? Godfrey Daniels? Shoot? Fooey? Do you allow use of the term "snafu?"

[prairie]

Fourth year of summer camp cussin got rampant, (that was also the only year with open front shelters), the boys decided iffn ya cussed you took a bite of soap, they made a tripod and hung a bar of Ivory from it and everything.

 

Somehow latly I have started sayin bugger when things go wrong on the farm, might not sound too bad for most people but I also know an old meaning for the word that if a boy used it in that context its the equivelent to a f-bomb. I gonna try to change to blast or tanji, need something to say to release the frusteration without be offensive.

Closist I ever hear my father cuss was telling an uncooperitive hog it had dung for brains.

[packsaddle]

Heh, heh, Hunt, to that I would add: FUBAR, JUMA, FFP (for those living the in the mountains) and 10DCF. This stuff is endless.

I guess I kind of like the way SSScout views it, and Hunt. At one extreme, the boy is hacking away using profanity in a vulgar and artless manner. In these cases I go with SSScout. Such use, aside from being offensive to some others, implies that the user is unskilled in language...not exactly a compliment if they would just think about it a little.

Words related to reproductive biology have good anatomically-correct counterparts and I am willing to sit calmly and explain to the boy or boys how they can say exactly the same thing using these anatomically-correct terms, and actually impress people. Often when I ask them to actually define what they mean by these words (to find out how much they understand), they seem reluctant or embarrassed. When I offer to let their mother help with the definition, for some reason they get even more reluctant. It usually ends there.

 

At the other extreme are just a few, very few, who have honed this language to a level of art and skill that I almost admire. They are more aware of what they are doing and are in some ways more susceptible to suggestion that in the eyes of others, their use of colorful language may not exactly cover them with glory. They are in sufficient control to restrict its use to the 'proper' times.

 

But I confess, this has really never been much of a problem at any level for this unit. I guess we're just a bunch of goody-goodies.

 

Edited part: I guess I want to say something to those who are offended. Remember, this is a two-way interaction. The word is without effect if YOU don't know the meaning already. In some respects it isn't the word, itself, that is offensive but rather the idea in YOUR mind that you associate with it. When someone uses a word that causes you to react, remember that in so reacting you are allowing that person and that word to exert a little control over you. If your perception is part of the interaction, then you are also part of the solution.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Kudu]

How do you deal with bad language? and swearing Scouts?

 

Baden-Powell had a simple solution. Scout Law dictated that:

 

The punishment for swearing or using bad language is for each offence a mug of cold water to be poured down the offender's sleeve by the other Scouts. It was the punishment invented by an old British Scout, Captain John Smith, three hundred years ago.

 

See:

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/scout_law/chart.htm

 

Times have changed, however, and popular culture now celebrates the crude language used by rap artists and the Bush Administration.

 

Just before a campaign speech in Illinois, George W. Bush said to his running mate Dick Cheney in front of a live microphone: "There's Adam Clymer, major league assh*le from the New York Times."

 

Dick Cheney told Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy to "Go f*ck yourself!" during the U.S. Senates annual photo session.

 

When one of my Scouts uses that language I give him one warning: purely as a safety issue we can not allow a Scout who talks like a Dirty Dick Cheney to take Rifle Merit Badge or Shotgun Merit Badge at summer camp because he is likely to get drunk and shoot someone in the face.

 

If you use this no-nonsense, conservative approach you will no longer have a problem with White House Language in your Troop!

 

Kudu

[Trevorum]

heh, heh. I volunteer to pour the mug of cold water down Cheney's sleeve.

[Lisabob]

Thank you, Kudu, for a good laugh! I'm all for that method.