Not fun.

[Eamonn]

I don't like winter very much, I really dislike the cold and hate being cold.

I'll admit that I shy away from winter camping. I just don't enjoy it.

Because I dislike the cold so much, I think I have most of the gear needed to keep warm.

I know my dislike of winter comes into play, but I worry about Scouts camping in tents when it's so darn cold.

Seems to me that many Troops have a date set and come whatever they are going and nothing is going to change their plans.

I wouldn't take Scouts out on the water in high winds. We do practice drills about what to do should we get caught in them, but taking the boats out knowing that high winds were coming would be very unwise.

The low temp in our area without the wind chill went down to 5, last night. The high for Saturday is only in the 20's.

Camping in this is just not my idea of fun. Planning to take young Scouts camping with low temps like this seems to me to be foolhardy.

I have some nice equipment, but the tents I have are all 3 season tents or below.

I know some people enjoy the winter, snow and the cold. We have one Scout who lives next to Seven Springs Ski Resort and works as a ski instructor. All he has done so far this winter is complain about the lack of snow (And money!!)

I'm fine with taking the Scouts away to a nice warm cabin in the winter.

But to go tent camping just isn't my idea of fun.

Eamonn

(The fair weather camper!!)

[GernBlansten]

Depends. When properly equipped and trained, winter camping can be as much fun and exciting as any other time of the year. No bears, no bugs, no crowds. In the lower 48, temps can get dangerously cold, but only for those who are ill prepared. But I'm the type who likes a challenge and I find only those scouts who also enjoy a challenge find winter camping fun too.

That being said, winter camping can turn into the worst experience of your life if you forget one critical piece of equipment or do something stupid like getting wet. Its a fine line. I've stood on both sides of it.

[SR540Beaver]

I vote with my buddy Eamonn. We camp in tents every month of the year. Some folks think that because we are in Oklahoma that they weather is like Palm Springs year around. Let me assure you, while it isn't Ely, MN, it does get cold here. I'm not sure why Chicago gets noted as the windy city. Whoever nicknamed Chicago that has never spent a day in Oklahoma. When it is 103 degrees in August and the wind is blowing at 30 MPH, you can feel yourself turing into a mummy. When it is 15 degrees in January and the wind is blowing at 30 MPH, you can feel yourself turning into a freeze dried backpacking meal. BTW, the wind is usually blowing at 30 MPH in Oklahoma.

 

I have all of the proper cold weather gear. I still don't like it. I do it because the troop does it and I support the program. Would I EVER choose to cold weather camp as a personal recreational activity. Not on your life. I put it right up there with camping in 100 degree heat in August. I do that too. I also wouldn't do that for a personal recreational activity. Recreation to me is something I do that I find enjoyable. Cold and hot weather camping don't make the cut.

 

I do love spring and fall camping though. I'm geared for all weather camping out of sheer necessity.

 

We cancelled our January campout to Kansas. Not because the nightly lows were going to be in the low teens and the daily highs in the low 20's, but because momma nature dumped several inches of sleet and ice on the road between here and there. I thought the SM was going to cry when we didn't get to go. I sure enjoyed my recliner and fireplace that weekend.

[scoutldr]

My nephew, who is severely LD, joined a rather large troop last fall. Two weeks later, they went camping and the weather turned cold. He was totally untrained and ill-equipped. On top of that, the scouts were told that for food, it was "every man for himself", so he took lots of Doritos, ramen noodles and pop tarts.

 

Needless to say, he has been "turned off" to camping and will probably drop out.

[Stosh]

Without equipment and training, winter camping really sucks. However, there are nice BS Camps out there that have a winter survival program that our boys have attended for the past 15 years. They have the equipment and expertise to make the outing very challenging and exciting for the boys.

 

One year the temperature went down to 43 degrees below zero (not counting the wind-chill) and staff went out to help the boys if they wished to return to the main lodge. ALL TROOPS declined the suggestion saying they were warm and snug for the night and didn't want to get up and run around in the cold.

 

I have done a lot of winter camping and if done right, with the proper education and equipment is an excellent program.

 

For those in the upper midwest check out Spearhead at Tomahawk Boy Scout Reserve. It is an EXCELLENT program and have had boys from all over the upper midwest come and learn how to winter camp correctly.

 

Stosh

[pargolf44067]

I agree with most posters on this thread. Not a big fan of winter camping. Next month is our "Polar Bear" camp where the boys make their own shelter and cook their own food and camp out for the night. My son has done it for two years. Last year was my first as SM, so I went.

 

I only do it for the boys. I had a father tell me this week how this is his favorite campout. The man has to be nuts! We prepare the boys for the prior 4-6 weeks on how to handle the cold. Last year it got down to 3 degrees on the night we went--the coldest night of last winter!! I look forward to February 10th with dread.

 

Bill

[Eamonn]

GernBlansten

I agree that training is a big part of just about everything we do.

I do worry that at times adults forget that we are dealing with young Lads.

Because I don't like the cold (And maybe because Rory does!!) I have gone the extra mile to ensure I'm prepared for it.

I'm willing to spent the extra few dollars to ensure my comfort and well being.

Sadly many of the young Scouts don't have all the right gear and some leaders don't become aware of this until they have to deal with a cold unhappy Scout.

I do see the challenge. But I also see the risk.

I'm not sure a 12 year old Scout is ready for the challenge? I'm also unsure if at times the adults allow their ego to get the better of them?

A couple of years back our Council held a ski day at Nemacolin Woodlands. One Troop from our District decided to go up on the Friday night. They arrived late (After dark) didn't really have the right gear, the Scouts were young and the Troop has never been known for its outdoor skills. That night the temp went down to minus something without the wind chill.

The scouts were cold and not very happy. At about 4:00 AM they were all up causing a fuss. Everything was frozen, they couldn't get the stoves to work.

We arrived to participate in the ski day.

The SM was so proud of "His" Scouts!!

All the Scouts quit!!

Talking with our DE earlier today he informed me that the Troop only has two Scouts and will not be rechartering.

Of course I'm not saying we need to go into winter hibernation, but I would hope that the Scouts who we do take out do have the gear and the training and the adults are not ever to proud to say "Hey this just is too cold" and either go home or move to somewhere warm.

We are supposed to be going to New Jersey this weekend. I'm watching the weather -If it gets too bad, we will stay home and like my buddy Beav, I'll give the recliner a work out!!

Ea.

[LongHaul]

there are nice BS Camps out there that have a winter survival program AHHH!!! Eamonn titled this thread Not Fun having to survive does not sound like fun to me. Eamonn also said that he had most of the gear needed to stay warm. When I took Okpik locally several years ago one of the trainers said that more people get cold from over protecting as do from under protecting. You over dress, perspire, get wet, get cold. Dont shoot for warm shoot for comfortably cool. Proper training indealing with cold as opposed to surviving it can make all the difference. We should keep in mind what Eamonn points out, When it isnt fun we shouldnt be doing it if we as leaders are surviving just so the boys who enjoy it can attend we project that. If we are the only available leaders OK but try to find the example who will be the good example. I have fun at negative degree levels, 43 below is kinda pushing it though. Activity next month is north of Wausau Wisconsin, camp on a frozen lake. Boys look forward to it, we usually have enough snow to build quinzees and dont even use tents.

Being a fair weather camper is not like being a fair weather friend. I have leaders who refuse to hike, If I cant throw my gear from the car to the spot my tent will be I aint goin is the motto of one of my best summer camp leaders. Rain, wind, one year a micro burst that almost relocated the entire camp, doesnt faze him, he just hates walking with a pack. Eamonn should stick with what he is best at and find some one that enjoys lower temps.

LongHaul 3 cube Okpik Flake

[SR540Beaver]

"Comfortably cool". That is what I aim for with my air conditioner, shorts and tank top during August.

 

I agree with what LongHaul said. Different strokes for different folks. There are some people who are absolutely thrilled to spend a month bushwhacking a trail for a month with a tarp, a knife and maybe a compass. Then there are those who don't. Camping skills and trips do not need to be extreme unless that is what attracts you individually. Back to winter camping. Here in Oklahoma, we don't get a lot of snow. We do get a fair amount of sleet and ice. Our cold weather camping mostly consists of bearing the cold winds without the benefit of building snow shelters, skiing, snoeshoeing, etc. I can see how cold weather camping can be fun if you have the white stuff that goes with it. Otherwise, it is just an exercise in staying "comfortably cool" and little else.

[scottteng]

Here in Florida we love winter camping and tend to take a break from camping during the brutal July & August period. The temperature is still tolerable in June for summer camp even though they got evacuated to the mess hall for a tropical storm last year. The dangers of heat exhaustion are all too real for the kids doing outdoor activities. Constant reminders to drink some water and shade seeking are popular activities.

[pargolf44067]

We actually make the parents go with the first timers to our polar bear campout.

 

Last week at our district Klondike (which was only a one day event), there was a troop whose boys had only jeans with no thermals on underneath (it was a high of 20 with snow on the ground). One of our ASMs was judging their patrol for cooking and said two of the boys were covered in snow and looked miserable because they were so cold. He said something to one of their leaders and the leader defended them by saying that they were wearing flannel jeans.

 

This isn't just Boy Scout preparedness, this is common sense to dress warmly and not play in the snow!!

[nldscout]

The problem is for some of us if we didn't do winter camping we would be resticted to a few months each year.

 

There is nothing so invigerating as getting up at 5am in -30 degree weather and having to dash to the "Pee Tree".

[GernBlansten]

That's why God made empty Gatoraid bottles.

[moxieman]

pargolf44067 wrote:

Last week at our district Klondike (which was only a one day event), there was a troop whose boys had only jeans with no thermals on underneath

 

Our Klondike is this weekend. As in past years, I am one of the inspection judges. If I find a scout who doesn't have ski pants or some other wind/waterproof layer on, I will not allow them on the course. Same goes if you have sneakers rather then winter boots. All scouts must also have a winter hat (baseball caps do not count). We warn all units in advance of this and emphasize it is a SAFETY ISSUE. I have turned away some scouts over the years, but only a handful.

 

Three years ago, our high for the day out of the wind was roughly -20F to -25F. Tonight, we're only suppose to dip down to -15F with a high in the low teens tomorrow (almost too "hot" for the Klondike!).

 

Three years back, I impressed one patrol. They had arrived at my station as I was starting to prepare lunch. I run a quick station, so I set my pot of water aside that had been heating on the stove, took care of them and they were ready to head off 5 minutes after they arrived. They stared in surprise at the inch of ice in my water pot. Even I had not realized how cold it was 'cause I was dressed properly for the weather.

 

Our klondike is usually an overnight event. We have decided not to allow anyone to camp outside this year as there is not enough snow to provide proper insulation from the cold ground. I understand they're still going to do the overnight part, but it will be in a nearby school gym.

 

I have winter camped before (in 6 ft of snow up in the mountains of New Mexico--one of the best times I've ever had camping). I don't do it now because:

 

A. I'm not active at the troop level (I'm a district volunteer).

B. I no longer have enough gear (sleeping gear) to do it safely, nor the cash to purchase the right gear.

 

[smincz]

I'm tellin' ya Eamonn, you gotta come down for a visit! And Gern got that right; but that goes for any temp.

 

Take care folks!