Scouts that aren't into Scouting

[RMcCown]

Howdy

We have a couple of boys who, for reasons unknown to us, aren't interested in 'being scouts'. They don't participate willingly in a lot of the mechanisms of the Troop meetings, they barely go on any outings, and aren't showing any of the SMs any scout spirit. Having talked with the boy, and then with the boy and his parents, he SAYS he's interested in being a scout, but he just refuses to show it. The other SMs and I think its the "do you want to play piano?" question; he wants to because his parents want it.

 

As far as the other SMs and I are concerned, he's welcome to come along as long as he's not disruptive, but he's already caused problems at last summer's camp, and in our eyes he's on thin ice anyway.

 

Any suggestions on how to get this guy in or out?

 

YIS

-=Bob

[local1400]

What are the ages and ranks? You could sit with them and find out what their main interest is or what they do/do not like about scouting and go from there. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. Good luck and try to focus a little energy in their direction regarding some merit badges to earn they may be interested in.

[Beavah]

Hullo there, Bob!

 

Tough question, eh?

 

Often, kids who aren't (yet) engaged with Scouting still haven't found anything in Scouting that they connect with and experience some success at. I think that's true of most scout retention, eh? Boys need to find a connection to people (SM, buddies), and have an experience or 12 where they succeed and get some kudos (the hard hike, the daring mud-stacle course, etc.). Dat's the principle behind things like New Scout Patrols, Troop Guides, and First Class First Year, eh? But those program elements aren't the only way to get there, and they definitely aren't the best way. That's what Adult Association is for, eh?

 

So the big question is "What do you know about this lad?" What is he good at? What does he like? Yah, and I think a second question always should be "How much time/energy are you willing to spend on this lost sheep?"

 

I think if he is engaged with other things outside of Scouting, you do him the favor of helping the parents adjust to Joey being a Theater Buff, not a scout.

 

If he's not engaged with other things yet, then maybe he can find his connection in Scouting. Is there a particular youth or adult he seems to like? Have that youth or adult suggest activities/a role within the patrol/a merit badge that he might succeed at, and build connections doing. Follow-up is key; he'll need to "feel" that someone cares about him personally - someone checks in and spends some time with him at every meeting, calls when he's not there just to say he's missed, etc.

 

Don't be afraid to consider thoughtfully whether a different troop in the area might be a better fit, and make introductions eh?

 

Yah, odds are dat in a year's time this boy won't be with you. He'll find "his thing" in some other activity, eh? It may also be that in "holding the line" on behavior, you give him the excuse he needs to get by his parents and go find "his thing". So don't be afraid to hold the line on behavior and set expectations the way you have been.

 

 

[evmori]

Some feel every boy will find Scouting fun. I love Scouting but I am not one of those who believe this.

 

Scouting isn't for every boy. Not all boys like to fish, swim in lakes, shoot, build fires or camp. Sure there is tons of other stuff behind these activities but the boys see the activities & not what's behind them.

 

You can only be there for the boys who want to be there. Beavah is correct - these boys will be on to something else soon.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SSScout]

What Beavah said AND...

 

It may be more a 'you can't make me' thing developing with the parents. Any observation of the dynamics between boy and dad? The boy may not want to admit he'd like to be more Scoutish because that would be admitting that his dad is right about something...

Make the opportunities available, keep your interest in him open, give him 'attaboys' when you can. He may be missing the dad factor somewhere. Praise him when you can IN FRONT OF THE PARENTS. Let them see the good you see and listen to and watch their reaction.

 

YiS

[kraut-60]

I have a situation in the troop I serve in that involves a boy I have known since he was a Cub Scout who isnt interested anymore with Scouting, in fact I have seen his disinterest as far back as 3 years ago.

 

This Scout is presently a Life Scout and is very active in sports and is an exceptional young athlete for his age (15). He has stopped attending meetings and Scout oriented events in favor of sporting participation. Recently, this boys father had been very sick and was hospitalized. I am noting that because his Dad was the Troop committee chairman and ensured his son attended troop meetings.

 

Since before Christmas, the former CC has been pushing the SM to allow his son to do his Eagle project and what MB's that remain so his son can "get his Eagle" before he turns 16. The dad has sent numerous e-mails to the SM and the TC and COR outlining why his son needs to circumvent the requirements to be active and serve in a position of responsibility.

 

He (the dad) feels that his son was active for the 6 months since Life rank and that he no longer needs be active on the troop or with his patrol. The Scouts time when he was in his POR as ASPL was found to be lacking as he didnt carry out the duties that the office entails. Really all this boy did was show up, and sit at the table at the front of the room. His support for the SPL was minimal to none. Our SM, ASM(myself) and our COR discussed his lack of performance and agreed that he didnt do much more than wear the ASPL insignia.

 

My own son who is friends with this boy has told me "Dad,**** told me he doesnt wanna be in Scouts, but his Dad makes him go". This boys dad has also e-stated that if his son doesnt get his Eagle this summer, then he will never get it once he turns 16 and is driving. He has said that we can drop them from the charter if the SM doent sign off on his sons afore mentioned requirements he lacks at this time.

 

I feel this is a case of the father wanting the rank more than the boy does. This boys older brother was an Eagle Scout as well as the father. Whats truly perplexing here is that this Scouter would try to get a rank for his son whos clearly not interested in achieving it on his own.

 

This boy is a good boy who seems to be following a dream or trail his dad doesnt seem to take the same pride from that his son can. I hate seeing this as this man was a good Scouter. I dont expect those who read this to offer any way to "fix" this as I dont see that the boy needs any "fixing", he has found purpose and a sense of acomplishment in an activity outside of Scouting that is good and carrys rewards as well as the positve involvement Sports programs offer.

 

I can only applaud this boy for his dedication and determination to be a good athlete and team member. My sympathy now is to the dad for trying to "get" his sons rank of Eagle, when clearly the boy doesnt seek it. Sad.

[gwd-scouter]

I have a similar situation, or rather "a tale of two Life Scouts."

 

Life Scout #1 - been at this rank for 3 years, will turn 18 in June. Very into multiple varsity sports and quite good I'm told. Hence, always misses meetings and outings. Past year has said he wants to get Eagle, but comes on strong for a week or two and then is gone again. Has been told repeatedly that he must fulfill a POR. Have given this Scout every chance and opportunity to succeed - he just doesn't want to commit. Sadly, parents have now resigned to the fact that he probably will not earn his Eagle. There is, of course, still hope for the next six months.

 

Life Scout #2 - been at this rank for two years. First year he was mostly absent and non-committed to the troop. Same reasons as Scout above - very heavily involved in varsity sports. But, also, he, like the Scout above, just seemed to lose interest in Scouts. This past year something happened and he has suddenly become our most enthusiastic Scout. Was elected to SPL last January and has continued in the job to this date. Finished his Eagle Scout Service Project over the summer. Called me last night to ask if he could come by this weekend. Seems over the Christmas Break he met with the organization for whom he did his project and got final completion signatures. Now he wants to meet with me to get my final approval and begin the process of looking over his application for Eagle.

 

I have mentioned to all of our Life to Eagle Scouts these past years that I'd like them to schedule appointments with me to answer questions, go over advancements and projects, etc., rather than take up Troop meeting time. Life Scout #1 above just doesn't get it. He pops in to a meeting and announces that he needs to talk with me about such and such (most times, the only meetings he shows up for). Life Scout #2 gets it and has made arrangements with me many times, either before or after a meeting, or even coming to my office, to go over his Eagle materials.

 

Such a difference! I wish I knew what sparked enthusiasm back into Scout #2 and what, if anything, could be done to light the fire back into Scout #1.

 

 

[RMcCown]

Thanks for the replies. The main 'culprit' is a First Class scout, though how he got through his SM conferences is beyond me (that was before my time in the barrel). He shows *zero* interest in participating in the meetings. He approached the former SM and myself about getting a leadership position in the troop "so I can get my next rank" (he's run, and failed to get, a PL position during patrol elections). We told him, tiwce so far, that to be a good leader, you need to be a good follower, and show some interest in supporting his patrol and the troop. He nods and says 'OK', and then reverts right back to being not interested.

 

This past summer camp he was actually detremental to a degree. We had a fairly extensive service project for our campsite, and he didnt participate at ALL (whereas the other 16 guys put in a total of 140+ hours). At the end of camp myself and the other ASM at camp talked to him, and his mom, about his attitude, and that he needs to be either in or out, but not disruptive. He sat on that for the rest of the summer, and before the start of school, we contacted his mom to ask what he thought about what we said, and if he was interested in persuing Scouting as an activity. We got an email back from his mom, and I quote

 

"Yes he has expressed a strong intention to continue in scouting and to

advance to Eagle. He has also expressed a desire to be part of troop

leadership."

 

Which, of course, went nowhere.

 

This weekend is our Winter Skills campout (55f in Januaruy in Massachusetts?) and he expressed interest in showing the younger guys how to use a Dutch oven. This past troop meeting, he said "No, Ive decided I dont want to do that, Im not going on the campout"

 

Now that its my turn at the helm, and he's continued to be 'out' and minorly disruptive at troop meetings, I feel that its time for a heart-to-heart with him, his mom, and my ASM.

[scoutldr]

Sounds like that the POR is not the only thing that will hold him back. To advance to Star, Life and Eagle requires independent work on merit badges and service projects. Merely showing up for meetings and campouts is not going to do it, unless you are running a MB mill during meetings. I would have a BOR with the scout and have a frank discussion along the lines of "from here on out, it's up to you, Bud." Then wait for him to either get off the dime or age out. Dealing with disruptive behavior is a different issue, and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Lisabob]

We have a scout who fits your description almost to a "T". He's a nice kid in general but he seems to view scouting almost as a chore. He has had a hard time getting elected to a POR because he's not a good follower and so the other boys don't want him as a leader. As an APL, has been more trouble than help to his PL. He's made it clear to adults and other scouts that he wants a POR solely for advancement purposes. Poor attitude. The other boys in his patrol are well aware of this. This same boy's parents have been talking about how he (and his little brother) will make Eagle since this boy joined as a Tiger in 1st grade. Dad was the youngest Eagle in his troop "back when" and has commented many times about how he'd like his sons to follow the same path (which, none the less, isn't happening). Lots of family pressure there. I feel for these boys because they don't seem like they're really enjoying themselves.

 

Here's the thing. You aren't obligated to hand a boy advancement if they haven't done their part. You can't "make" him enjoy scouting if he is determined not to. But if you're the SM and he is in your troop then I think you are somewhat obligated to continue to provide this young man with the *opportunity* to learn, grow, and enjoy his time with you. Hopefully he'll make the most of it but maybe he'll stall for a bit longer where he is and perhaps he'll choose to leave on his own. Maybe he's getting a lot of pressure from his parents to "get" Eagle, in which case if you can approach the parents about re-orienting their viewpoint, that might help. Of course some parents just won't listen and that might even be counter-productive; you'll have to use your own judgment there. Maybe this is simply a maturity issue. A lot of 12-13 year olds (typical 1st Cl age) just lack the maturity to understand that it is the experiences they have, not their rank, that matters in the end. The rank is just a symbol of what they've achieved and learned, nothing more. You can offer guidance here, but results may be slow in coming. Maybe if he sticks it out and you stick it out with him, eventually he'll come to that realization.

 

I don't think there's a reason to push him out the door though, based on what you've said. Be clear (in a kind manner) with him about what the expectations are if he really wants to advance, and that you'd really like him to enjoy his scouting experience. But let him know he's always welcome in the troop whether he chooses to work more toward advancement at the present time or not.

 

 

[Beavah]

This weekend is our Winter Skills campout (55f in Januaruy in Massachusetts?) and he expressed interest in showing the younger guys how to use a Dutch oven. This past troop meeting, he said "No, Ive decided I dont want to do that, Im not going on the campout"

 

Yaha! I get it!

 

Does this boy even know how to use a Dutch Oven himself? Let alone actually teach it? You've said he probably shouldn't have made it through his T-2-1 conferences...

 

It's unfortunately too late to save this weekend. The thing to try is to meet with him outside of troop time for a couple of hours and teach him how to use the Dutch Oven. Have him practice. Meet a second time and fine-tune. Even meet a third time and let him teach you.

 

This strikes me as a boy who wants to do well, but just doesn't know how to start. He's got the itch to be a "player". He wants the attention. But not knowin' or bein' confident in how to get it the right way, he reluctantly gets it the wrong ways. And I expect he's scared to death of lettin' his lack of competence show in front of other boys, so he's never going to ask for help.

 

Identify the adult he connects best with. Jump on anything he expresses interest in. Teach him first in a low-stress environment away from the other kids. Make sure he's ready. Then let him come back to the other kids as "the guy who knows it". And who the SM trusts with it.

 

Takes effort. Maybe more than you have adult time for. But if what mom says is right, and he's not in other activities, I betcha he could be one of your best in a year or two.

 

[scottteng]

"While a First Class Scout, serve actively for 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop):

Boy Scout troop: Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor."

 

Why is responsibility being assumed to mean leadership is needed. It is for some positions patrol leader, ASPL, SPL,JASM, Troop guide. None of the others require to my mind very much leadership of Boy Scouts. Den chief is leading cub scouts. OA troop rep is a popularity thing. Scribe has to have legible handwriting. Librarian keeps track of merit badge books. Historian is a good one for the shy genius who watches all that goes on and takes pictures. Quartermaster keeps the gear straight. Bugler annoys the rest of the troop at sunrise and lights out. Chaplains aide is the father confessor. As for instructor remember the old saw them that can't do teach and those that can't teach teach others to teach. The alternate to a POR is a leadership project "or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop."

I don't see the POR as leadership only it is more about being responsible to the troop for making sure that particular part runs smoothly. This may help develop leadership skills in the boys but leadership is not a prerequisite or requirement of most of the POR's.

Example the Quartermaster of the troop gets tired of personally drying all the tents after every campout so he comes up with a plan which he takes to the PLC of every boy having a turn at the pleasure of drying tents. Thus developing some rudimentry leadership in the QM. He was still handling his responsibility by personally drying the tents. Learning to delegate is developing leadership.