We have discipline problems

[MarkS]

We have discipline problems. They are compounded by the fact that we have several scouts that are special needs (e.g., ADHD, Aspergers, etc). Reason and reminders do not work in mitigating the problem.

 

Typical issues include not respecting other scouts and their property (e.g., taking and hiding of handbooks, rabbit ears over the head instead of the scout salute), wondering off from the group, excessive talking while trying to conduct activities (e.g., being very disruptive while the rules of the game are being explained), kicking butts (e.g., playfully, but still kicking), violations of personal space (e.g., touching, tugging, pushing), racial language (e.g., calling other boys crackers). These wouldn't be an issue if it was one or two scouts doing it once or twice during a meeting, but this is a chronic, persistent problem and involves a significant portion of the troop. About 6 of 18 boys.

 

I understand the best solution is more engaging, faster passed meetings and activities. The trick is to figure out what the boys find more engaging. That involves talking to them and some trial and error.

 

The last resort is to involve their parents more (some of the parents of the boys most responsible for the problems help monitor their behavior during the activities, other parents do the drop and run). This can range from simply informing the parent of the undesired behavior and ask for them to deal with it, to having the parents stay at meetings to discipline their boy, and if they cant help correct the behavior, remove the boys from the Troop. We dont really want to do this.

 

Its easier for a parent to deal with his own child because you have punishment or denial of privileges as recourse.

 

The SM and ASMs (I am an ASM) discussed this at length during the most recent post Troop meeting PLC. Our first proactive measure was to provide the PLC with ideas on how to make the meetings more engaging. Does anyone have additional ideas? I really dont believe this can be solved with any single solution. Heck, unless parents have some sort of discipline regimen at home, it may be unsolvable.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[evmori]

I have a feeling you will continue to have the same problems regardless of how great you make the meetings. It sounds like these six are having too much fun getting away with whatever they can. Time to put an end to that.

 

I would sit these six and their parents down & have a chat with the adult Troop leadership doing the chatting while the parents & Scouts listen. I would go over everything you have posted here then tell them "It stops now. Next incident from any one of these six & they are suspended for 9 days & will not be allowed back in the Troop until the Scout & parents have a meeting with the adult leadership of the Troop to determine if there has been a change in the Scouts attitude. If not, the suspension will be extended another 30 days." Not ifs, ands or buts about it. If you lose these six, you lose them. But their behavior must stop.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[MarkS]

Just wanted to clarify my comment "The last resort is to involve their parents more..." By that I strictly mean in terms of correcting the unacceptable behavior. We want the boys to want to behave before we do that. I'm not thinking in terms of limiting their ability to provide adult leadership.

[Lisabob]

Actually Mark I don't know if that ought to be your last resort. Thinking about some issues that have come up in the past in the troop and packs I was associated with, it seems to me that sometimes you can AVOID many behavioral problems by being upfront with parents. For example, for some boys you can come up with a code word or other discrete signal to let them know when they are getting out of control. For others a self-imposed quiet-down period helps. For some a buddy or shadow is really necessary to help them identify and correctly interpret social cues. You can do trial and error and find out some of these things yourself over time, or you can ask Mom and Dad what works to start with and skip a lot of the "error" part of "trial and error."

 

Also and speaking strictly as a parent here - I don't want or need a report on every little thing my kid does, whether he looked at someone cross-eyed, etc. But if he is acting out in such a way that it has become a major disruption then I EXPECT to hear about it from the troop leaders, preferably earlier than later when he may have developed this mis-behavior into a habit. And I would expect them to seek my input into how to work with my kid to help him overcome any problems or quirks that he has (and we all have some quirks, don't we?). Also, especially when it comes to grossly inappropriate behavior (physical space issues and racial slurs fit here in my book) then if some other boy in the troop is engaging in such behavior against my kid then I also expect troop leaders will talk with that boy and his parents.

 

So no, don't run to mom or dad at every turn but if you aren't including them in the pro-active approach to your discipline issues then I think you probably ought to start doing that.

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

I taught a shop class for five years. I had kids with many kinds and types of disabilities and ESL kids, (did I also say they were in Junior High?). Sometimes, I could not speak their language and some had no expressive skills, so I resorted to using hand signs and whatever resources I could muster. Language and disability barriers are correctable (*decreased) by a host of various means but one of the most effective is to let the kids know that you love them so much that you will go to whatever lengths to get and keep their attention. Speak, correct, redirect, pay attention, make sure they have a task. We had only one minor accident during that time and I was the only person with a class of twenty to thirty. I enjoyed it enough that I still miss it.

 

So how does that experience apply to a Troop with a few Scouts that can't stay on task? How does it apply to an SPL or PL that is trying to herd a group into a competition or game? It makes it more difficult for them but the learning experiences can be of great value for them. The SM and ASM's will need to be attentive to the leadership and be ready for personal coaching/counseling. Giving boy leaders responsibility is daunting because it would be easier to do it yourself but restrain yourself and learn patience. Even with the best group, boy leaders fall below par much of the time (*par is what you expect of yourself but then you are an experienced adult).

 

If you must have rules, keep them simple and few, say five. No hitting or kicking- why?, no harm is expected. Stay with the group- why?, it is expected by Scouting and parents- no one needs to be lost and we work as patrols. Leave other people's property alone- why?, A Scout is Trustworthy. Well you have the idea...

 

What are the consequences for breaking the rules? First, all Scouts must agree every six months on the rules. Parents are informed of the rules. The committee gives their final OK of the rules. We want everyone on board before we begin the punishment phase. The PL speaks with a Scout first. The Scout is referred to the SPL and then to an ASM. The Scout is referred to the SM. The SM makes a home visit. The Scout goes before the Troop Committee with his parents in tow. The Scout is asked to change and is given an amount of time to change. The Scout is asked to come up with a plan of correction. The parents are asked to help with the plan of correction. The Scout is suspended from activities. The parents must attend all functions with the Scout, etc.

 

The plan is progressively tighter until the Scout may decide that being a Scout is not what he wants. At no time does anyone want the Scout to leave. It is always his decision. We want him to know that we will go to any length to keep him in the program.

 

One note of warning, Scouts are boys and the rabbit ears behind the head trick may be overwhelmingly funny to them. One must not go too far with discipline because boys at that age have a tickle bone that needs to go off every few minutes. As you have already noted, keep the meeting interesting and going at a pace that is slower than the speed of light. Remember to start and stop on time. Parents need to be prompt about picking the boys up. I would also like to throw in one more rule and that is, One parent or guardian of every Scout must take charge of one activity or Troop need per year or be on the committee.

 

I could go on but stopping an activity while it is still fun is another rule of mine. fb