No idea where to go from here.

[msnowman]

Nephew has been w/ his Troop for nearly 2 years. He's a 2nd Class Scout (just barely passed the beginner's swim test at summer camp summer before last). The only thing keeping him from 1st Class is the swim test. He gets physically ill at the thought of getting in the water (and no, I'm not embellishing, the last half dozen times he has been at the pool for swim practice he ends up in the bathroom vomiting). He is absolutely convinced he is going to drown because he can't touch bottom. I've tried to explain to him that he isn't going to drown, that that's what the lifeguards are for, etc. It doesn't help, he works himself into a perfect tizzy about getting in to water over his head. How he managed to find the courage to do the beginner's test I don't know. I've tried the "well you could do it for beginner's, this is just a bit longer" and he gets all tense and defensive and says "but I almost drowned".

 

I've considered having him put on anti-anxiety meds for swimming, but that seems like an extreme solution to this one problem. He came to swimming late (9 yo), and he isn't comfortable in the water (if the above didn't explain that already). I love to swim and love being in the water (okay, so I don't swim well, but I can float like nobody's business) so this isn't an anxiety he has picked up from me. Nobody else in his family swims, his father is afraid of the water and his mother isn't allowed to swim (seizure disorder).

 

I don't know how to help him. I can't make him swim. I can't make him get over his fears. This isn't even about Scouts, except it is the thing that is forcing swimming on him. I don't care if he ever makes 1st Class as long as he is enjoying what he's doing, but he does care. He wants to be 1st Class so he can make Eagle. I don't want to see him drop out due to frustration over 1 requirement and know that I did nothing to try to help. I don't know as though anxiety would/could/should count as a reason for a medical exception. I haven't presented that as an option to him. I just don't have any idea where to go from here to help.

 

Any advice?

 

YiS

Michelle(This message has been edited by msnowman)

[Trevorum]

Michelle,

 

I've been there.

 

As a kid, it took me three years to pass my swimmer's test at summer camp. Here I was, SPL and I still had a red buddy tag. It was embarrassing. But still, I couldn't do it. (Much later, I connected the dots with my near drowning in preschool). Eventually, I got the Swimming and Lifesaving MBs and made Eagle, but those were two tough badges for me. To this day, I am not comfortable in water over my head.

 

Anyway, my advice is (1) don't push. (2) Invest in quality swimming lessons, preferably one-on-one to start. Some instructors are better than others - find someone with lots of patience who has helped kids with this fear before. (3) If neither of his parents swim, it will be doubly tough and may boil down to your relationship with him. Let him know that your love and respect is unconditional and is not tied to his ability to swim. (4) Be patient.

 

My best wishes are with this fellow!

 

-Trevorum

[Trevorum]

Rereading you post, I see your question about alternative requirements. This may be an option if a physician examines him and concurs that swimming is beyond his ability at this point.

 

We have a fellow with Aspergers syndrome in our troop. For the first year at camp, he wouldn't go near the pool. The second year, he stood in the shallow end. In consultation with his parents, we developed some alternative requirements for 2nd and 1st Class. By the 3rd year at camp, he had developed enough self confidence to overcome his fear of drowning and earned his Swimming MB straight up. He's now working on his Eagle project.

 

The caution is not letting his fear become an excuse for him never trying. If the physician, his parents, and the SM agree to alternative requirements for 1st Class, he should know that this does not automatically exempt him from the Swimming MB. He should still pursue swimming lessons at his owm pace.

[msnowman]

Trev - thanks for the encouragement. I do try not to push but know that I do fall short there. I like to swim so I don't understand being afraid of the water. He has taken lessons and they helped some...he learned the mechanics in the shallow end but still wouldn't venture into the deep end.

 

I tend to agree w/ B-P, every person should know how to swim well. Other than the stamina that comes from practice I don't know as though he is physically unable to do the swimming requirement. Granted, his running stride is very awkward (he sort of lopes, its a coordinationg thing)...its just trying to get him over his fear of drowning. His head keeps him from being able to do it (its awfully hard to swim when you are either in the bathroom vomiting or so worried about drowning that you stand in water up to your belly-button nearly paralyzed by the stuff in your head). He spends half of his swim lesson just trying to get his face wet.

 

Last year he was asked "what is your goal in Scouts?" He said to pass the swim test for 1st class so he "never has to swim again". He knows that the Eagle requirement is Swimming OR Hiking OR Biking...he says "I can walk" (doesn't have the motor control/coordination to ride a bike, numerous attempts to learn have failed miserably....the same lack of motor control that makes cutting w/ scissors an exercise in futility)

 

His parents are....to be kind...uninvolved, so its whatever his SM, Dr and I would decide to be best for him.

 

YiS

Michelle

[Lisabob]

Michelle,

 

Two questions come to my mind. 1) What does the SM think about this? I assume that he's aware of the issue. He's going to be an important part of the answer here and his attitude is going to play a role too so what is your take on that?

2) Does your nephew have other developmental delays or issues? The red flag was when you said he's not coordinated enough to ride a bike either. I'm no expert. But these two (swim/bike) often seem to go together with other kinds of delays and/or conditions that make addressing the root problem a bit harder. ie, it is not a "typical" kid you're working with and who happens to just really not like swimming. If there are other legitimate medical concerns/issues then I see no reason not to talk with his Dr and SM about developing more suitable alternate requirements.

 

Lisa'bob

[msnowman]

Lisabob - Yes, his SM knows what's going on...its usually his bathroom Nephew is being sick in (has an indoor pool and has offered to work w/ Nephew for the swimming thing), so he has seen it first hand. I haven't approached him about pursuing the possibility of alternative requirements because I've been looking at this as an anxiety issue and have been trying to find an way to deal w/ the anxiety so that he can relax enough to swim.

 

As far as being developmentally delayed - I hadn't looked at it that way before because he's always been like this. In elementary school he had problems controlling his body in relation to his space. His handwriting has always been atrocious and he has never been able to stay inside the lines coloring. As far as larger muscle groups - he runs (excuse the expression) like he has a stick in an impolite place...very stiff and upright, with an odd, loping sort of stride. When he tries to swim its w/ much flailing of the arms and legs because he can't get them coordinated to work together (the same coordination is lost when he tries to ride a bike, the legs can't work with his upper body). Its always been chalked up to being a bit of a klutz. He's the kid that falls down the stairs because he mis-stepped (that was Sunday morning).

 

Thanks for asking the questions....more angles to exam a problem from is helpful.

 

YiS

Michelle

[DanKroh]

Hi Michelle,

 

Most kids who have moderate coordination problems like those you describe for your nephew have a legitimate neurological foundation for those problems, especially when you mention problems with proprioception (the body in relation to space). Such disorders fall under the blanket term dyspraxia.

 

Now, I'm not a neurologist, but I do have some experience with dyspraxia because it is one of disorders that commonly goes hand-in-hand with Autism Spectrum Disorders such as Asperger's (which my older son has) and also with ADHD (which both my sons have).

 

Those that suffer from dyspraxia are also more often stricken by anxiety and panic attacks (like your nephew) because of their uncertainty in relying on their bodies to do what they are trying to get them to do.

 

If he were younger (in the troop 2 years says he's around 13?), I'd definitely recommend getting him to a neurologist and then getting him some physical therapy to help with his gross and fine motor deficiencies. At this point, it is probably still worth consulting with a neurologist if possible, since he may still benefit from therapy.

 

As far as scouts, I am facing the same situation with my son. Can't swim, and is afraid to try. Can't ride a bike, and probably never will. Can't do strenuous hikes because he also has a congenital heart condition. So that group of merit badges is going to be a big challenge for him, if he decides that he wants to pursue Eagle.

 

But, like your nephew, he is also stymied at his current rank (Tenderfoot in his case), because of the swimming requirement. One thought we have discussed in his troop is letting him do the requirement wearing a PFD, since he is happy to be in the water with a PFD on. Might something like that work with your nephew? That might also be another reason for a trip to a neurologist; if you can get a definitive diagnosis of dyspraxia, it would help to smooth the way to allowing him to complete alternative advancement requirements.

 

Good luck with the situation, and I hope he is able to continue to enjoy his scouting experience.(This message has been edited by DanKroh)

[ASM59]

Good Day,

 

In our area are many old strip mines that have been converted into sportsmans clubs. We belong to one of those clubs that has swimming, fishing, hunting, camping and more available on the grounds. The swimming area is a lake that was once a strip mine.

 

Prior to my involvement in Boy Scouts, I had the opportunity to work with two boys who were friends of my son. Neither one of them could swim and I found out that Mom and Dad could not swim either and would not even get into the water. The fact that mom and dad didnt get into the water instilled a fear of deep water in the boys. Certainly the deep water is bad when you know that you cannot rescue you son if he has trouble, so you teach them to stay away from the rope marking the deep water.

 

My son wanted desperately for his friends to be able to join him in the deep water and I noticed that the boys could swim, but would never go into water over their heads. (It sounds like your nephew is in this situation). I asked permission to help the boys with their swimming and received an enthusiastic thank you from the parents who really wanted to know that their sons could be safe in deep water. In one day I was able to help both boys overcome their fear and they were out in the deep water of the lake playing raft tag with the rest of the kids.

 

Since that time, I have helped five more boys overcome their fear of water (3 were Boy Scouts who needed this for advancement). In each case they were boys whose parents either did not swim or had a fear of the water themselves. Also, in every case it only took an hour or two before they were comfortable enough to attempt to swim in deep water (each of them could already swim a basic stroke, but were simply afraid of the deep water).

 

Heres how I have done this:

In each case I have known the boy and their families well it all starts with trust. You start by holding him up in the water around the waist and ask him if he really trust you and begin walking slowly toward deeper water. There have been times that as we walked for the deep water that some have struggled to get free. If a boy does that you must walk back toward the shallow water until you have gained his confidence; asking things like, Would I do anything that would really hurt you? and continuing to talk about trust.

 

Once you get to the deeper water, make sure you are holding onto him firmly and that you have a good foothold on level ground, but you should be in water that is at least 8-10 inches over the boys head. Tell him that the human body is naturally buoyant (explain what that means if necessary). Tell him that the average person, with a lung full of air and without moving around will float with the water somewhere about the mouth or nose. Tell him that youd like to demonstrate this by having him take a deep breath and lowering him slowly into the water; stress that he will not sink like a rock. Tell him that you will loosen your hold on him but will keep you hands very near incase he gets worried. Make sure he knows that you will not move and that youll keep hands and arms within his reach at all times. If necessary stress the whole trust thing some more.

 

Once he agrees to this, you can lower him into the water. Youll sense when he is about at the level that hell float and you can begin loosening your hold on him. If he panics, hold onto him again and work on reassuring him some more. I have always been able to get them to allow me to do this; the longest it has taken to get them to allow me to let go was 20 to 25 minutes, most have done it in the first couple of tries.

 

Now, he knows that he will not sink like a rock, but you still need to help him gain more and more confidence. You can do this by letting go of him with his chin about a foot above the water. Keep your hands near by, but after a few times and helping him understand that by kicking his feet that he can come back to the surface, hell be more comfortable with this. Hell learn how to come back to the surface and will even begin learning how to tread water.

 

Then (assuming he can do some elementary swimming strokes) let go of him and take just a couple of steps back and have him swim to you. He will get more and more comfortable the more you do this. Keep increasing the distance and before you know it, hell be swimming more confidently. Always stay near him when he ventures out in the deep water for the first few times. I have even notified the life guard when a boy is making his first attempt at swimming to the raft and theyll either stand at the dock and watch or actually swim out with us and a floatation device.

 

Like I said, this has worked every time Ive tried it. The last two were boys whose parents had heard from other parents about my helping boys with swimming. They think I am a miracle worker, but the boys already knew how to swim. I only helped them overcome their fear

 

You may be able to use this technique with your nephew

 

ASM59

 

[SueM]

There is also a lack of coordination that goes along with Asperger's. When my daughter runs, her feet and hands are flailing all over the place!

 

I have a young boy in my troop who has physical issues which involve having a rod placed in his back. He is making progress on his swimming but it will be very difficult for him. I am not sure what to do...I have asked the parents to get a recommendation from his physician as to his future capabilities but so far have not gotten anything.

 

sue

[Beavah]

Yah, Michelle, I agree with DanKroh. From afar, this looks like it may have neurological roots. That's worth looking into; the boy may do well with some very targeted help that addresses all of his neuromuscular challenges.

 

Never sell these kids short. The key is the gentle, gradual approach like ASM59 suggests. Slow and steady, building trust and comfort, stretching but always backing off before or as soon as deeper anxiety hits.

 

I'd also suggest buoyancy devices. Start with aquajoggers or water wings or even a good, tight-fitting life jacket (has to be secure and supportive). That should ease the anxiety of getting in the water - to start, tell him that he's going to wear flotation. Then just paddle around, shallow and deep, have splash wars, tread water, float, learn some simple strokes. Build confidence and endurance. When that becomes "just fine" for him, reduce the buoyancy and repeat. By that point, he'll have a lot of water time, all the basics of simple strokes and floats and treading, and a lot of trust in the instructor. Then move gently into no-floatation during a session when he's looking really well-rested and confident (don't announce it in advance so that he can worry himself for days of anticipation!!), working the way ASM59 suggests.

 

Along the way it really helps if some older troop-mates tell him stories about how everybody has something they find hard - whether it's climbing (acrophobia), or claustrophobia, or a tough time swimmin' or bikin' or doin' math homework. It'll help a lot if it's viewed by peers as OK to be behind, but still working on something that's tough.

 

 

[nldscout]

msnowman

 

"so its whatever his SM, Dr and I would decide to be best for him. "

 

In order to bypass swimming and do an alternate requirement for 2nd or 1st Class you must apply to the Council Advancement Committee for approval. See Below, it can be complicated at best.

 

A Scout who is unable to complete any or all of the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank because he is physically or mentally disabled may complete alternative requirements if the following criteria are met:

 

The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature.

 

A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a physician licensed to practice medicine. In the alternative, an evaluation statement certified by an educational administrator may be submitted. The medical statement must state the doctor's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability.

 

The Scout, his parents, or leaders must submit to the council advancement committee, a written request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternative requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements.

The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements.

 

The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements.

 

When alternate requirements involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician.

 

The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources.

 

The written request must be approved by the council advancement committee, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for disabled youth. The decision of the council advancement committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader.

[msnowman]

I'd like to thank everybody who has taken the time to give me suggestions and ideas because that brings hope.

 

nldscout - when I said "so its whatever his SM, Dr and I would decide to be best for him. " it was meant as a response to "his parents..." I didn't mean anything more...just simply that the decision would fall on my shoulders and not his parents. It was not meant to imply that the 3 of us could/would/should bypass channels, just that his parents are not part of the decision making process (not limited to, but including whether we appyly for alternative requirements or not).

 

The paperwork part doesn't scare me....I'm an office manager...lol. As far as eductional administrator statement - that's a piece of cake - he has several along those lines in his perm school file.

 

I refuse to sell him short and let him take a medical pass if there is something that can help him overcome this....he's a good kid who got a rough start in life. Thank you all again for giving me directions to explore. When I started this thread I hurt so much for him that I was typing w/ tears in my eyes, but now I have a more hopeful outlook.

 

YiS

Michelle

[Fuzzy Bear]

I want to throw in my two cents into this pool.

 

I have taught swimming to all ages of Scouts, including Scouts with disabilities. I want to remind everyone that swimming is not taught in the deep end first. It is taught in the shallow end first to acclimate a person to the water and to make it fun. It is a progressive exercise that allows a person to get their head under the water so that they will know how to return for air. They learn to kick and build strength. They learn by being successful and they then move on to the next level. A person does not go to the next level until they feel comfortable with previous one. If a person halts at a level, then one instructor remains behind with that Scout(s) until he is ready to move up. If a Scout is ready for deeper water but not over their head then an instructor will hold the Scout up while practicing a kick or they will be close to watch. Scouts use the wall and kick boards for practice and may also be allowed to go to water that is not above their shoulders to practice, only while being watched. Every Scout has a buddy and the swimming pool is marked off for levels of ability. Structure and discipline lends itself to a sense of security especially for beginners. Most that go in the water will find some problem at some time. If they learn that there will be structure and discipline while being in the water and if they have learned the techniques, then they know they can rely on both to help in times of trouble.

 

If your Nephew said he had an incident where he felt that he was going to drown, then most likely he did. Most people know when they get into trouble in the water and they will know they did not have the skills or the security to help. He probably survived the incident by an "unseen hand" of some kind. He also knows that he might not get that kind of help again unless he does something to help himself the next time. He needs to be reassured that he is doing the right things to help himself in the future. Being prepared means that he is getting himself prepared for anything that comes along. This includes water incidents that can be fatal if he hasnt prepared for them beforehand.

 

He is not ready to move down to the deep end. He and you need to go over the Safe Swim Defense and make sure that the staff that is teaching uses a similar system. He can learn to swim but his fear is keeping him from doing so. Work within his ability range until he is ready to move to the next level. He will do so as he learns the skills and trusts those that are working with him to assist when he has a need. fb

 

[GernBlansten]

I was a lifeguard and water safety instructor through high school and college. I met my wife while working summers at the municipal pool. Her job was to teach adults with waterphobia, most unable to even put their face in the water. To me, it just seemed silly not being able to submerse your head. But she was good, patient and had a method. I was stuck with teaching 6 year olds.

 

I would suggest that this scout get some private lessons with someone like my wife who will work very methodically and patiently through the phobia. Ask at the local pool. It would be the best gift you could give him. Get him away from the peer pressure and just become water safe.

 

I just can't imagine a world where I was afraid of water. It would so control my very existance. Do everything in your power to help this scout.

[Trevorum]

Fuzzy said, "...swimming is not taught in the deep end first."

 

Yeah, that was my problem. I didn't know that part. As a 3 year old, I saw everyone having a great time in the pool at day care and I just went ahead and jumped into the deep end, not knowing that swimming is not instinctive to our species. I think nearly drowning that day gave me a deep mistruct of water over my head.