Disruptive Scouts

[Eagle309]

Our Troop is currently small (8 active boys-- 2 patrols) and young (3 12 year olds and 5 11s). SPL is 12 yr old Star (and elections are comming up). Highest rank of others is 2nd class.

 

For the most part our meetings go well, except two of the boys (and it varies as to which one) can be extreemly disruptive during the time that we are having discussions or doing skill instruction. It causes nothing to be learned/done at the meetings as someone (ususally the SPL but sometimes an adult when the SPL is ignored) has to constantly quiet them down/ stop their mild (non dangerous) horseplay. The last meeting we had, the SPL had the disruptor go sit aside while the meeting then went on (and was quite successful and on time). While I applaud the action of the SPL, neither I (SM) nor the TC knew what had happened at the time except the boy left quite upset. They thought that this action was too harsh and in fact, if I knew what had known at the time, I would have talked (again) with the boy and tried to get him back into the meeting after a shorter 'time out'.

 

None of this has been effective so far in helping with this behavior. Various adults (as well as the SPL) have met with the boy individually and discussed the problem with him. He just says the meetings are boring and he wants to have fun. We have tried dangling various 'carrots' in front of him-- ' just 10-20 min of skill instrucition and then it is game time to test/practice these', having a game after this if time permits (ie no disruptions in the meeting) , or even the advancement/leadership position/OA elegiblilty carrots, but all to no avail.

 

I am looking for ideas as to how to deal with these boys. These are the boys who need scouting the most.

[Beavah]

Trust your SPL, eh? He seems to be quite a bright turnip in the patch. On his own, he decided that giving a consequence was far more effective than giving a talk or a bribe. He's doin' a better job than your adults, eh?

 

To manage negative behavior, yeh give consequences. Simple, fair, direct. When the consequence is done, a boy is welcomed back with open arms, and hopefully given something to succeed at. It's good that the disruptive boy left upset, eh? That shows that the consequence meant something to him and might help him change his behavior. Now you need to do da second half and welcome him back next week and try to get him to succeed at somethin' he can be praised for.

 

The fact that the session went well for he other boys after your SPL dealt with the matter shows how much the boys want (& respond well to) simple, honest discipline. Given a few weeks of "good sessions" being normal, they'll even start applyin' peer pressure on disruptive kids themselves, followin' your SPL's example.

 

I'd pull your SPL aside and say "nice job." That's a kind of maturity rarely found in a 12-year-old. Then help him with the second part of how to welcome the boy back to a success.

 

The part for you adults to think about is whether your parlor meetings and school-like instruction model really meet the needs of all your boys. Could the same teaching be done in a more active way, outdoors perhaps?

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

The "time out' was a good idea, but you should seriously consider what it is these boys are telling you.

 

You have 1/4 of your scouts telling you, every meeting, that the meetings are BORING.

 

Consider the possibility they could be right.

 

Have a get together with your PLC directly after your next meeting and discuss what went well & how meetings could be improved.

 

[EagleInKY]

I think your SPL is doing the right thing and you should back him up.

 

Little things sometimes help, like having an adult tap them on the shoulder to calm down. Also, I've found that often peer pressure is the key to solving this.

 

Another idea is for you to talk to their parents. Find out what makes them tick, and what they do to reign them in. I used to have a scout with a real behavior issue. I found out that he has a hard time being told "no". But, if you tell him "no, because...", he can usually deal with it. I started doing that with him, and it was amazing how he turned around.

 

Good luck.

[scottteng]

If it wasn't for disruptive scouts we'd have no scouts at all. To the scouts we the adults are boring and the things we want to do are boring. Their peers are immensely fun and entertaining. So let them entertain one another.

[Eagle309]

Thanks for the advise so far. A couple of notes-- these boy's parents are of no assistance-- one is actually an ASM and just sees his son as rambuncous. The other has a very bad home life (Scouts is one of his escapes) and telling his parents could have negative repurcussions.

 

Also, the other boys have been complaining about the disruptions and are looking for more help on how to deal with it. That is my cue that I need to be a bit more involved in this situation.

[Eagledad]

These are the struggles that build strength in a troop. While I know it is very frustrating and difficult, what you learn here will help in the future..

 

Hi All

 

I want say that this is a very typical problem in all units and your frustration is common among adults in new troops. I think your post is very important and has a lot of parts to it.

 

First, I have to agree that your SPL seems to be the most on top of this right now. To be honest, asking him for ideas would go along way toward praising his efforts, boosting his confidence as a leader and showing that even adults dont know everything. He did exactly what we teach our youth leaders. I will get back to this in a minute.

 

Remember, our job is influencing behavior. Scotteng says it best, if it werent for disruptive scouts, we would have no scouts at all. All of us in way or another are disruptive to others. What about the scout who doesnt like his meal? You are struggling because this is new for you. But this will not be your first, and in fact this experience should help the adults learn skills for the future. Its not just the scouts who grow from scouting.

 

Part of how we work with scouts is learning how to motivate their behavior. Dr. Kilpatrick says it best like this: To learn how to form judgments, we must practice forming judgments under conditions that tell success from failure and give satisfaction to success and annoyance to failure. Another word for all this is the scouts need to be held accountable for their actions. All actions, whether good or bad. We praise good actions and we guide during bad one.

 

The reason all the replies praise your SPL is because he not only held the scout accountable, but he dealt with the bad behavior without yelling or loosing control and the scout in question knew he was wrong. He was annoyed by the SPLs actions. You should need to reinforce the scouts failure by supporting the SPL.

 

I get the feeling youre are trying to be sympathetic and understanding with the scout hoping he will change from your show of compassion. But human behavior is opposite, we tend to try and get away with what we can. The more we get away with it, the farther we push it. Human nature is we only listen when we respect and trust the person that is trying to guide us. Why do you think mentors are so powerful. Usually a mentor is someone we trust to fair and honest. The way you draw respect with scouts is to be fair. That means praise when he does well, and hold him accountable when he fails. Never get angry, only concerned. Now there are lots of ways to do this, but the point is the scout should feel annoyance when he fails.

 

A few ideas that have worked well are asking the scout leave the meeting and sit outside the activity until someone can talk to him later. Ask the scout to go find the SM and confess what happened. Ask the scout to call their parents to come pick them up. Ask the scout to come and talk to the SM. Have an adult follow the scout around, which works really well because the scout has lost his freedom. I have never seen a scout who could stand that more than two meetings before they change their behavior. Those are just a few ideas that have worked for us, but remember, whatever you do to work the problem, the scouts are likely going to use as well because they are watching. There are many more ways of dealing with your misbehaved scouts and Im sure other folks will give suggestions, but it is important that you need to get in the habit of asking the scout questions that leads him to acknowledge he failed, usually with the scout law. Then guide him, not you, but him to come up with ideas to change his habits because to learn something, you must practice that something. As you practice this style of leadership, you will get better and you will also be amazed at the success.

 

On the other side of this, Ive notice that your SPL used a really good leadership skill to control the crowd. Im not sure you recognized that, but asking a scout to leave the room when asking a scout to simply stop doesnt work is one of the techniques we teach our scouts in the Troop and at Council JLTC. The reasoning is to remove the annoyance of the meeting so that you can continue your business. Deal with the problem later or ask someone to deal with it out of the room if it must be dealt with immediately. That could be the SM, ASPL, ASPL or older scout. As you said, your meeting ran on time once your misbehaved scout left.

 

One of your responsibilities as a SM is teaching leadership skills. One of the problems Ive seen in scouting today is that many adults dont seem to have leadership skills, so they dont know how to teach them. But there are couple simple rules that work for almost everyone that I gave to our adults and scouts which usually help start their actions in the right direction. When dealing with behavior: Never Yell, never. And never react immediately with emotion (anger, fear), ask for a time out to collect your thoughts until you can talk logically without anger. If you can follow those two rules, you will likely be doing OK no matter the situation. As you get better at this, so will your scouts because when it comes to leadership behavior, it really is monkey see monkey do. You want proof, watch the other troops next year at summer camp and observe how the SPL acts compared to the SM. You will be amazed.

 

I want to respond to your comment that these two scouts need scouting the most. If that were the case, you would only have the most difficult boys in your troop. Our job is to guide scouts to make ethical decisions based from the Scout Law and Oath. I think every boy needs that guidance. The only difference between your son and those other two scouts is they need a different type of guidance to become citizens of character and leaders of integrity. Who knows, those two scouts may turn out to be natural leaders and your son inept. It only means that your son needs a different style of guidance toward developing leadership than the other two scouts. Be careful not to loose sight of the big picture.

 

Sorry, I know this was long. I dont have the gift of writing and you guys suffer from it. I hope it helps.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[CA_Scouter]

I too applaud the actions of the SPL. What a smart kid! Excellent handling of the situation!

 

Regarding "neither I (SM) nor the TC knew what had happened at the time " ... uh, well why didn't they know? Where was the adult supervision? Perhaps a stronger adult presence during Skillbase will help with the situation.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but consequences for the disruptive kid are appropriate, regardless if it upsets him or not. Its not fair to the other scouts to have him disrupt their meetings so much. First though, discuss with the kid what your expectations are for his behavior, and the consequences of not meeting those expectations. That way he will know what to expect ( the parent should be part of the meeting ).

 

 

That being said, it doesn't mean you can't spend more time to find out what makes him tick and figure out appropriate 'redirection' to get him back in-line. I've got a couple of 'Windtalkers' in my troop, and I challenged them to put on a skillbase, and they came through and did a good job. They've done a few more since then, and though its not completely shut down the gabbing, it has helped. If you can find some 'positive reinforcement' to apply to this kid, you'll get a lot more distance out of it than by any negative reinforcement.

 

You seem like you really want things to work out for this kid. With that kind of positive attitude, you should be able to do so.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

 

 

[SSScout]

Howdy, Eagle309:

I second (third? fourth?) the comments and suggestions of my brothers and sisters. The SPL did good. Actions, good or ill, should (and do) have consequences. But one thing has not been mentioned.

Review your observation of the boys home life. While some boys are more "rambunctious" than others and some have a less than ideal homelife, and some may even have a biochemical imbalance that affects their behavior, all humans react to attention and need recognition. If they can get that attention and recognition and approbation from home and parent(s), so much the better. If not, they (WE!) will go looking for it from others. Hence the rise of street gangs, and bullies in school, to some extent. If I can't get my dad's attention at home, I'll raise cane at the Scout meeting and get attention there (one interpretation).

 

So along with limiting the boys effect on the meeting and removing his source of attention ("don't do that!"), the adult should LOOK for things to praise him for. I bet if the SM complimented him on his uniform or knot tying or such, that would have good affect ,too. Give them GOOD attention and approval so they won't need to go looking for the BAD attention. It is not sufficient to only give BAD results for behavior. Give them an alternative, a way out of the bind they don't even know they are in.

 

One SPL might ignore the boy because he's a PitA, but another might make sure the boy is included and treated fairly and equally in being called upon and chosen. What results might one expect from each of the two possibilities?

 

Combine the ideas.

 

YiS

 

[evmori]

Excellent job by the SPL!

 

Since the timeouts don't seem to be working, how about sending them home? Call the parents (mom in the case of the one with the ASM dad) & tell them to come pick them up. When they get there, explain the problem. Advise them if the behavior continues, the Scouts will be placed on probation for xx months & in order to return they will need to bring their parents with them & have a meeting with the leadership.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10