Should I Stay or Should I Go?

[jackmessick]

For summer camp this year, a parent volunteered to go with me as part of the adult leadership (there were three of us all week).

 

Apparently, this parent (a father) made some dumb, inappropriate remarks to some of the boys. One of them went like this: on the way to swim tests, one boy attempted to "pants" another, to which this dad said something like "try it again and I'll take a picture." He was cracking a joke, as he didn't even have a camera with him. I think it was his way of trying to get in with the boys by being funny (since he is relatively new to the troop--last February), but apparently some boys took it the wrong way (in my opinion).

 

None of the boys, sadly, brought it up to me at camp, but later were overheard by their parents discussing it on the car ride home.

 

Finally, it was brought to my attention by the Troop Committee chairman, whose son attended the summer camp, about three weeks after camp.

 

I have not been able to meet with any of the boys to find out for myself what went on, but the Troop committee wants to deal with the parent in a couple of days. They are not looking to bring up child abuse charges or anything, but they want to talk to him and let him know he needs to protect himself from sex abuse charges by watching what he says. They are going to suggest that he take basic Scout Leader training before he is allowed on any future outings.

 

Fortunately, we have a couple of police officers on the Troop Committee who are used to handling conflict (and are much more "people-oriented" and can read people better than I can, that is for certain).

 

However, they have asked for me NOT to be at this meeting. They say this is protecting me, since I was at camp. Part of me says I should be there, but another wants me to respect the Troop Committee. After all, it is not an Assistant SM, but a parent they are dealing with.

 

So, should I be present at this meeting, or should I follow the wishes of the TC? What do you think?

 

 

[SemperParatus]

I would follow the wishes of the TC. As SM, your focus should be on program, not adult behavior. You were not a witness to the event and have no direct knowledge of what transpired. Although I suspect the TC maybe overreacting (and you feel the same), better to let them figure that out themselves. I would, however, share your concerns with the CC before the meeting. Maybe some gentle redirection by the CC and you in a private conversation with the adult is in order, rather than a full-blown meeting.

 

It sounds like a lethal combination of dumb, off-the-cuff comments by a new unknown adult and a few overprotective parents.

[scoutldr]

As a result, I think that ALL registered leaders (at a minimum) and ALL parents be encouraged to take the on-line Youth Protection training...then the parents will understand what rules we live with and why. I also agree that it appeared to be an off-the-cuff remark with no nefarious intent, and that the TC is over-reacting. I agree with those who think a quiet one-on-one counseling is all that is needed. Is the TC equally intent on disciplining the scouts who started the whole thing?

[Aquila calva]

A troop committee is not a "Board of Inquisition."

 

Scoutmaster and Committee Chair need to get their act together and then talk with this parent together. Tell him the story they have heard. Tell him he needs to protect himself and all the scouts by taking the online Youth Protection Training.

 

And what about the scout who tried to pull down the pants of another scout? Sounds like the whole troop needs to take the Youth Protection training during a scout meeting (with all parents invited) so that every scout and parent knows it is totally inappropriate to pull down the pants of anyone else!

[Eagledad]

>>Scoutmaster and Committee Chair need to get their act together and then talk with this parent together.

[jr56]

You and the CC should have an informal discussion with the pareent in question. This does not warrent a full blown committe interegation. Suggest he take youth protection training.

If people don't stop trying to make mountains out of molehills, we won't have a scouting program anymore because nobody will want to volunteer their time to lead it.

[FScouter]

"... they want to talk to him and let him know he needs to protect himself from sex abuse charges by watching what he says. They are going to suggest that he take basic Scout Leader training before he is allowed on any future outings."

 

Idle comments do not generate "sex abuse charges". Sex abuse generates sex abuse charges.

 

Adult leaders should take the YPT training. Adult leaders should take leader specific training. Parent

volunteers don't need training unless they are going to serve as leaders.

 

The SM and/or the CC should talk to the parent volunteer, not so much about what he said, but that behavior by a boy yanking another's pants is totally unacceptable.

 

It is the boy that needs the talking to more than the parent volunteer. Really, this sounds more like the committee members are the ones that need the training.

[acco40]

One of them went like this: on the way to swim tests, one boy attempted to "pants" another, to which this dad said something like "try it again and I'll take a picture."

 

Think about it like this. Your 11 year old is attending camp for the first time and is somewhat apprehensive about it. A sixteen year old Scout attempts to "pants" your son. Your son feels humiliated especially because one of the leaders, someone he thought he could trust, is laughing and instructs his son to do it again. Is that abuse?

 

Intent is irrelevant. Now, if this adult leader, who in the youth's eyes is part of the SM leadership, exhibits this type of behavior, why would the youth feel he could trust the SM. Why not wait until mom or dad come and bring it up on the way home?

 

I have no idea if the events described above have anything to do with what really occurred but nothing in the statement in the original posts precludes that it could not.

 

This is not about the SM. This should be about appropriate behavior by the adult leaders. In my estimation, the leader acted inappropriately. I would encourage the troop committee to chat with this individual (actually, preferably the CC, not the whole committee). Not a witch hunt, but a simple explanation to the adult (in private) about expectations the troop has with leaders.

 

P.S. This reminds me of why I don't like "parents" in leadership positions necessarily but like Scouters with training.

[Eamonn]

I can't help but think if I had a dollar for every time I've opened my mouth and inserted my foot that I'd be a very wealthy man.

Take the chap out for an adult beverage, find the right time to let him know that he has to be a little more careful about what he says around the kids.

Explain to the Scouts that at times adults do say things that they ought not.

I'm trying real hard to think where in any training this might be covered?

But if the Committee insists on going ahead with whatever, that's up to them.

I'd let them know my thinking and be sure not to attend any meeting.

What can you add to the meeting?

Stay home and watch the telly.

 

Eamonn.

[frank10]

Since he is acting as part of the SM's staff I (as CC) would first ask the SM if he would like to do the talk himself. If the SM took a pass on it, then the CC (me) would do it.

 

Then again, anyone who is going to summer camp with our troop MUST take YP first.

[packsaddle]

I have mixed feelings. Unless there is some other dynamic that would make the situation more volatile, and I don't read this from what you wrote about the police officers, I think it doesn't matter very much where the message comes from as long as he gets it and as long as he takes it to heart without getting bent out of shape.

My wife constantly berates me about sticking my foot in my mouth (but then, she berates me just about all the time anyway). I guess we all need reminders sometimes and it is better to get those friendly reminders than to make a serious mistake.

[Eamonn]

Some years back we attended a Cub Scout parent and son weekend camp.

The Assistant Cubmaster played a big part in having some of the Cub Scouts run a pair of underwear belonging to a Cub Scout up the Flag pole.

I think most of us agree that this isn't and wasn't a very good example for the boys and was a fairly dumb thing to do.

Sadly even after talking with him he failed to see that any harm had been done.

He is now a Scoutmaster and the Troop is a fairly good Troop. Still he does at times things that just seem stupid.

He is fully trained.

YP Training seems to spend far too much time on sexual abuse.

As we know from reading in this forum hazing is seen differently by different people.

I'm all for us the adults making sure we don't place ourselves in situations which might leave us open to accusations. But for myself I don't ever see myself sexually abusing anyone.

While I like to think of myself as being an easy going, nice fellow. There was a time about 20 years ago when a Lad really pushed it and the idea of bopping him on the nose seemed like a good idea!! I thank God that I was aware of my feelings and walked away, returning when I was better able to manage the situation.

While we do this for fun, taking a group of kids away for a week or more can be very tiring and very stressful. I really wish that YP Training spent a little more time on that.

While online training is a good thing, I fail to see how having anyone sit at their computer for an hour is going to help avoid situations like this one.

Before Her Who Must Be Obeyed and I were married we took marriage classes, six weeks sitting in with a group of other's who were either getting married or just married. 24 Years later and I'm still learning. A few years back we were asked if we would present the class, I wasn't sure we were qualified. Our Priest said we were, but I learned so much from spending the time with the couples who were so much in love.

This new parent/Leader seems like he wants to join in and have fun with the Scouts, having someone take him under their wing will do a lot more than any formal training.

Eamonn.

[acco40]

Since he is acting as part of the SM's staff ...

 

That's just it. Is a volunteer parent, who is not a registered leader, who goes along on an outing part of the Scoutmaster's staff? If so, in what capacity?