Profanity

[packwife]

Ok, boys just went to summer camp. I get to parents day and the whole troop tells me that SM is looking for me. Apparently, my son had an issue and after being razzed about it from one of the older boys, told older boy to "shut the f### up". ASM heard him and had a stern discussion with son and was told if he was his kid he wouldn't be able to sit down. He got mad at my 14 yr old because he gave the vacant teen stare to ASM during the stern discussion that I get at home. Older scout knows my son is having trouble this week and just keep on son all week. SM keep threatening to send my son home with me all week but never said that to the other boy. I'm not turning a blind eye to my sons behavior, but I feel like he was singled out this week and the adults who were in charge of my son's care for the week let him down by not asking for both sides of the story. Now, SM says he and other SM's and ASM"s want to have a sit down with my son when meetings start again(they break until school starts again) to talk about his behavior. Wasn't that taken care of at camp? I feel like saying enough already and when is it appropriate for me to step in and say so? I should mention that older boy is SM son's best friend.

[SueM]

Packwife,

 

Tough call!! Did any of the adult leaders give your son a chance to explain his side of things? Did any of the other scouts see or hear what the older scouts were doing to your son, who could maybe back up his story? Perhaps you could meet privately with the SM & ASM and discuss your understanding of the situation and ask them if they might gather some more information from the other scouts before making a judgement on your son?

 

Sue m.

[CaveEagle]

Well...

 

What a great lesson for your kid. His choice of words (and timing) has the focus on him. If he had kept his cool the brought the scout/adult leadership in the loop, maybe the instigators would be the ones in major trouble here.

 

I have seen similiar events unfold a few times. When my attention is drawn to a scout with profanity spewing from his mouth, I find it very hard to be understanding. To add to that, the scout with the "potty" mouth has just about ZERO credability after thay have lost their temper.

 

Then the SM & ASMs are expected to play detective and figure out who started it. ???????

 

My advice here is to cut your losses. Your kid needs to learn self control & judgement. We all have to deal with difficult people every day. If told 1/10th of deserving parties to "shut the *&%* up" I would be unemployed.

 

I hope your boy can keep his spirit up and get through this ok!

 

yis

CE

[packwife]

 

I didn't think SM or ASM's needed to be detectives I just thought they needed to be fair. If they were only hearing one side they don't have all the info they need to make a fair decision. He was never asked his side of the story the whole week. I do agree with you about his lack of credibility he seemed to have aquired after the incident. But why does that need to happen? He did apologize to the ASM and the boy after the offending words. Couldn't this have been a good lesson for all of them to learn that it's possible to mess up, own up, and be forgiven?

 

[evmori]

In my Troop, if the f-word is used, the user goes home ASAP. No exceptions. Makes no difference why the f-word was used. We don't tolerate that kind of language.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fuzzy Bear]

When we are on the other side of the hill away from the incident, we need to be careful about judging someone's judgments. It is important that we trust the Leader's to do the right thing even if it doesn't appear that way. We should also be willing to let a leader be wrong simply because even parents get it wrong sometimes.

 

I suggest that you follow it through. Go with your son to the hearing. Give your son support but don't speak for him. It sounds like your son not only knows the profane but also has an idea about what is fair and right. He wouldn't have had the "vacant stare" if he had thought that what happened was fair. I doubt that he was using the STARE because he believed that it is OK to speak to others using harsh and demeaning language as being correct either. So, we have to assume that your son still has something to say in his defense. I doubt that he is going to defend the poor use of his language.

 

In today's world, knowing how to defuse a situation instead of making it worse by poor use of language can be a lifesaving skill. I can think of several others but this may be an opportunity to increase your son's use of productive language skills. FB

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Packwife, was this a one-time deal or has your son had difficulty regarding appropriate behavior before? Lots of kids go through a tough period where it seems like every little thing so I'm not suggesting your son is a complete brat or something like that (sorry, haven't had any coffee yet and can't figure out how to make that sound better). I'm just thinking that the big sit-down talk might be more appropriate if this is an on-going situation rather than a one-time deal where he just blew it.

 

If it is just this one incident then making an even bigger production about it a month or more down the road may not deliver the results your son's SM is hoping for. Better might be if your son and the SM or one of the ASMs could have a friendly (short) chat while sitting around the campfire or collecting firewood together or something. You know, a teaching moment rather than a berating moment.

 

On the other hand if he is nearly getting sent home from camp outs or having problems more regularly, then maybe that sit-down is in order. But from what you posted, it sounds as if maybe the SM was just exasperated too and not sure how else to respond.

 

Lisa'bob

[Jeffrey H]

packwife,

 

I smypathize with you, but profanity cannot be tolerated regardless of situation. Yes, it's possible your son may not have received a fair hearing, but this will be a lesson for him to control his tongue when he is in a frustrating situation.

 

Best wishes on your hearing with the leaders.

 

--Jeff

[Eagledad]

>>I didn't think SM or ASM's needed to be detectives I just thought they needed to be fair.

[packwife]

Ok, I think I may have gotten off the point a little. I know he swore and used the worst swear word probably ever, and was punished for it at camp. He talked with ASM there and apologized to the boy and ASM. His troop will now not meet again until September where the ASM, who heard him, 2 other ASM's, who didn't, and SM who wasn't there will want to have a sit down meeting in Class A uniform. I just don't understand why there needs to be more action on this.

[evmori]

Barry,

We only send Scouts home if they use the F word. We don't tolerate profanity or the misuse of God, either. Have only had to send one Scout home for this reason so far.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Those of you who are long time baseball fans know that the manager arguing with the umpire is a long term baseball tradition. There exists informally a list of words/phrases that when used by the manager guarantees immediate expulsion. This is the reason why the manager can come out and argue for quite a while and never be thrown out, he didn't use the code word. He can argue for quite a awhile and be safe, say the correct phrase and get tossed or he can come out and use that phrase and be tossed immediately.

 

In general society we also have a list of words/phrases that guarantee immediate expulsion, maybe not from the activity by certainly from being taken seriously. A persons vocabulary shows quite a bit about a persons character, are they erudite or vulgar? Are they thoughtful or profane? The sooner a person learns that words do matter, that when you express yourself, the words used paint a picture about you which can take a very long time to fade the better situated they will be.

 

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

I always wondered why baseball managers got away with so much before getting kicked out. Its because some bad behavior is OK, just now all bad behavior. Thanks for the explanation.

 

I have one too. Our local soccer association had trouble with the refs not calling bad language. Most of the problem occurred from the older teenage refs who also played the game. It was found they allowed the language because they like to use it themselves. The refs said it was hard to punish players on some words while not on other words, so they pretty much left that rule alone. The parents had a different idea and now no bad language is allowed. To the parents it was all bad, so they forced the association to act.

 

I think what you are really saying OGE is it is up to the adults of the unit to use what ever ability and creativity within their means to restrict a boys behavior. I will accept that. I remember a scouter here once said that if scouts were talking after lights out, they were threatened with being sent home. I remember thinking that talking after lights out was one of my favorite ways of teaching the SPL how to control his scouts. I guess we all have different a straw that breaks the camels back.

 

Barry

 

[yellow_hammer]

OGE,

 

If only you were right. I've never been on the receiving end but I've observed managers who regularly used every word imaginable in their quest to get more out of their employees through threats and intimidation. It's not as common as it used to be but there are still plenty of social misfits (sociopaths even) who have climbed their way into management positions.

[yellow_hammer]

packwife,

 

I don't know whether this may be the case with your son but often a boy that has been disruptive over a period of time has used up all of the patience of the adults in charge. When it finally comes to a head the adults, being human, are just not willing to listen to an explanation from the boy who just stepped on their last nerve and is having a run in with a boy that has not caused any trouble at all. It is not fair but it is understandable.

 

I've had to explain this to boys several times when I get conflicting stories from the two involved. When I have one boy who often hits others and one who has never hit anyone and they both say the other hit first I ask them who they would believe in that case. Sometimes it works and they get the point that if they become known as a troublemaker then they have lost thier credibility when there is trouble. I sometimes even point out that there are some boys who will take advantage of their low credibility and will start trouble with them knowing that "the troublemaker" will not be believed if an adult gets involved.