ASM Out of Line or Am I?

[knottyfox]

I believe opening a tent flap is ok if, you have two deep leadership while doing so and that there is a legitimate reason to do so.

 

Shouldn't outa ever snatch a mans sleeping bag out from under him. I would imagine that this would tee off a fella! Kinda hard to work with the same fella the rest of the day.

 

Had a horrible problem at summer camp a few years back. Three Scouts told me that one of the Scouts was in his tent hurting himself. Grabbed another Adult Leader and went to investigate. After calling him repeatedly there was no reply. The other adult and I opened the tent flap to find this child standing in his tent carving on his arm with his pocket knife. Whoo, to big a problem here! Mom was called to collect her child. The child has issues and they are being addressed by a professional.

 

Knotty Fox

[Lisabob]

" I'd suggest he become a committee member until he can change his ways."

 

Hey! Why dump him on the committee! (Sorry - but as a cm myself, one thing I think we don't want on our committee is people who have behaved so poorly that they're no longer welcome on campouts. Committee is not a "time out" corner for badly behaved adults.)

 

Lisa'bob

 

[acco40]

Here is a nice and non-inflammatory way to handle this problem. At your next Scoutmaster meeting (or PLC if the majority of your SAs attend) bring up the topic of "chain of command." Draw on a piece of paper two dots; SM on the left, SPL on the right. Who should the SPL interface with? Why, only the SM, his ASPL and the PL. Who should the SM interface with? Only the SPL and his SAs. Now, draw the SAs to the left of the SM and the ASPL & PLs to the right of the SPL. Who should the PLs interface with? Why, the boys in their patrol and the SPL. Who should the SAs interface with? The SM. That is a formal chain of command. No SM or SA should be waking up Scouts with the possible exception of the SM waking up the SPL. Having a formal chain of command and adhering to it creates respect and draws boundaries. The SPL, SM and SAs should not be addressing the "rank and file" Scouts. It undermines the PLs authority and respect.

 

Now, the above doesn't mean that the no verbal contact should exist outside of these formal chain of command boundaries but they should be limited to run of the mill conversations not "orders" or "commands."

[campcrafter]

Off topic

 

Where do you guys go to summer camp that it is cool enough to close the tent flaps. I wanna go there.

 

My experience has been flaps and sides rolled up most of the week!

 

This is of course in heavy canvas wall tents with no shade.

 

cc

[SR540Beaver]

Gern,

 

Consider the other courtroom scenario.

 

Mr. Blansten, do you make it a habit to peek into the tents of 13 year olds in their underwear. Doesn't the BSA have a boy led chain of command and youth protection guidelines?

 

I'd rather defend the chain of command in a courtroom than defending why I'm opening tent flaps of almost nude pre-teens on a regular basis.

 

That being said, yes there are times where an adult has to open the flaps, but it should be rare.

 

OneHour,

 

You do have a problem. One that needs to be addressed. The best possible scenario would be for the boy leadership to take it to the SM and when asked by the SM, supported fully by the ASM's who witnessed the problem. That is in a perfect world.

 

This man presents a long term problem. I've mentioned it here before. When my son was a Webelos and we were looking at troops, there was a 40 year old troop that had always held a stellar reputation in the district and council. Our pack wouldn't even consider sending the boys to look at them because of an issue from the previous year at Webelos Woods when they attended with this troop. They had an ASM who thought he was a Marine Drill Instructor. I guess the SM and other adult leadership had either gotten used to him and blew him off or didn't want to confront him for whatever reason. Bottom line, people that went on campouts when he attended got a bad impression and didn't want their son in a troop like that. They also had scouts in the troop who wanted to drop. He eventually left the troop and they are back in full swing.

 

It needs to be addressed. My experience is that there are some folks with very poor people skills and they are simply clueless about it......even when it is pointed out to them. They just can't seem to help themselves. I worked for a guy like that once....but that is another long story.

[campcrafter]

It seems that to keep one out of litigation the SM could go with PL / SPL to do bed check. If there is no response without opening flap then the announcement is made that the tent flap is to be opened. The flap is opened by youth member and if the scouts are clothed and or in bed then the adult can verify and/or handle situation.

 

cc

 

[OneHour]

Chain of command is there. Our SM couldn't attend so we have a designated lead scoutmaster and it was not he. He has always asserted his authorities even when our SM is there. Our SM is somewhat non-confrontational so he tends to overlook the issue. Believe it or not, he is an Eagle Scout!

 

From my observations, he likes to think that he is a wilderness survival specialists or something close to it and he thinks that all boys should be the same. For example, at one of the campout, the adults were planning for the meals. I happen to like cooking so I suggested jambolaya. He laughed at me and said why do we have to go through the trouble ... quick hot dogs and trail mix will be sufficient. I corrected him and told him that I would agree on the simple meal if we were backpacking, but since this is a car campout, we can cook! By cooking, we can teach the boys that they too can have great meals and do not have to take short cuts to meals such as pop tarts, hot dogs, etc.

 

On hiking, would you say that the slowest man dictates the pace? Not with this gentleman. We were on a hike and he was off far ahead by himself while the last man (me) was at least 100 yards or better behind. I had to pull up the rear since no one else seems to want to.

 

Anyway, thanks for the rants!

 

1Hour

[yelruh]

He sounds like a real problem. What training does he have, and do you think doing some would change his attitude? Unfortunately sometimes no matter how much training someone has, the real person slips through.