Who's telling the truth?

[ASM59]

Good Day,

 

We have a situation within our Troop in which one boy is constantly being accused of bullying. Our boy leaders are not seeing it, our adult leaders are not seeing it. But, on every outing we seem to have an incident with this one boy, and not always with the same other boy. The incidents seem to me to be just overly aggressive "play".

 

When this boy is confronted by the leadership (boy or adult) with the accusations, he tears up and acts genuinely hurt. I think he is used to getting his way no matter what, and that leads to an aggressive nature when he is out with the other boys. Without seeing what is happening, it is hard to deal with the situation(s). I am thinking about a Scoutmaster conference with him at our next meeting, but am not sure what I'll say to him.

 

Any experiences or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

ASM59

[SR540Beaver]

Where there is smoke there is fire. It is possible that the boys have conspired to individually blame him one at a time....but how likely is that? My son has a buddy that I didn't really mind him spending time with. I kept hearing "things" about him from other people. It turns out that he has a "mouth" and is something of a bully at times. He has always treated my son good, but not other people. Even bullies have to have friends I guess. My son has a pretty good head on his shoulders and knows how to say NO, so I still don't worry too much when he is around him. I have warned him about being known by the comapny he keeps though. Bottom line, I never saw what other folks were telling me about until I started watching for it. Many bullies will only strike when there are no witnesses. The SM and ASM's and PLC need to keep an eye out for this boy to catch him in the act. It is hard to address if all you have are accusations. I remember EagleDad counseling me on how to handle boys who were misbehaving. They assigned an adult to basically shadow the boy everywhere he went. It didn't take the boy long to figure out he would have to change his behavior if he didn't want a permanent new best friend.

[Backwoods]

ASM 59, check out the following topic thread under the program area:

"Behavior That Warrents Expulsion from Troop?" it has a long discussion on some bullying behavior.

 

Remember there is no such thing as overly agressive play. If there are more than one complaint about his behavior, SR540beaver is absolutely on point; "where there is smoke there is fire". His concealing the behavior from adults speaks volumes about it as well. It is happening behind your back on purpose. The confusing thing for boys who act aggressively toward other boys is that they often perceive others as acting aggressively toward them. Every bully feels like they are on the outside looking in. The other boys may genuinely not like him and he gets that.

 

 

Do not give him an opportunity to deny it. Let him know you know and review Troop policy with him as you put him on notice. Let him know that his honesty and his taking responsibility is the route to redemption. Do not talk in vague terms, "bullying" is a value judgement that he can argue with. You need to attach it to real behaviors. Letting him know that using excessive force and then gloating when someone falls to the ground (or whatever) is not acceptable and is called bullying.

 

Finally, don't wait to confront him officialy. When you do do so out of concern for the wellbeing of all. He may need shadowing for a time in order to get things straightened out. Waiting for things to straighten themselves out will yeild poor results in this case.

[evmori]

What's he doing? Since he usually gets his own way it is possible there is aggressive behavior going on that needs dealt with. Then again, the other Scouts might be the type who can dish it out & can't take it.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ASM59]

Evmori,

 

Exactly what he is doing is not 100% clear. He seems to just be playing around like the others, but goes too far.

 

For example, The Troll Bridge Incident:

 

We built a nature trail and bridges over some ravines for a Christian retreat center in our area. We were back to do some trail maintenance in November. The boys were out playing at a bridge that has been named the "Troll Bridge". One of our Scouts came back to the campfire area and reported that HE was pushing him around. Several minutes later, another Scout came back and said HE was picking on him. I sent the SPL to the woods where the bridge was and asked that all the boys to come back. I talked to several of the boys who were there, none were really aware of the problem except for one who said that HE was getting a bit rough. I found that they were using the Troll Bridge as a fort and had built another fort further down in the ravine. They were basically sending "spies" from one fort to the other and attempting to steal building supplies from each other to reinforce their own fort. This led to some tug-of-wars over materials and I'm sure this is where the boy in question got too aggressive.

 

After talking to all the boys in general about "nice play" and getting along, I talked to this boy. When I told him that we've been getting reports that he is getting too rough, he teared up and claimed he was not. I've worked with kids for over 20 years now and can usually tell genuine tears from forced/faked tears. He was either genuinely hurt by the accusations or had me totally fooled.

 

So, this is our delima...

 

ASM59

[ASM59]

By the way, I agree with both ..Beaver and Backwoods on their comments. The only reason I am using the term "too aggressive", is because I am not convinced that this boy realizes how he comes accross to the others when he acts that way; but I'm still not convinced that the opposite is true either. No matter if he realizes it or not, it does not lessen the severity of the offense and the fact that others are feeling threatened.

 

We have already decided that we need to shadow him on any activities that he may be doing. But how to do so effectively is a question. It could be that during "free time" with the boys in sight of the campsite you still may not catch everything that happens.

 

ASM59

[SR540Beaver]

ASM59,

 

Never send a man to do a job a boy can do. Sounds like a job for a trustworthy ASPL.

[EagleInKY]

Some kids are amazing at fooling adults, and other kids for that matter. I've run across a few in my years that were a total "Eddie Haskell" to the adults and a total jerk to the boys. (Hopefully most of you will understand the Eddie Haskell reference).

 

If you really think something is going on, ask one of your lower-key quiet adults (if you have one of those) to keep an eye on the group for a couple of outings. If you don't have one of those, maybe a mature, older scouts can do the trick. Often I've found the troublemaker will really watch out for the adults in charge, but will let their guard down around someone they really don't see as an authority figure.

 

Nevertheless, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt until I had more to go on.

[evmori]

Sounds like it's time for some "secret squirrel" stuff from the adults. Next time there is a possibility for this type of behavior to start, check it out on the sly. Try to get some 1st hand info as to what is happening.

 

I'm a pretty good judge of kids, too. And from what you have posted, ASM59, it's either a conspiracy by the other Scouts or HE is really good! I'd bet on the conspiracy theory. Either way, good luck!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

I'm not one to buy the "boys will be boys" attitude toward bullying so please, don't anybody misinterpret what follows as being permissive in that sense. But...

 

Sometimes the kid in question truly does not realize how he is coming across. In my experience over years of working at summer camps, this is especially true with kids who are big for their age. I know we've had that happen in our troop as well with one boy who is generally a nice kid but, at age 13 he's almost twice the height and weight of most of his peers (let alone in comparison to the 10 and 11 year olds) and probably that much stronger. Playful "wrestling" type behavior that involves both him and smaller boys sometimes spills over into problem behavior because he just doesn't recognize his own strength or the difference between him and his peers. The smaller kid who ends up on the ground sometimes sees this as aggression but I don't think it is intended that way. And honestly sometimes the smaller guys do set things up to get out of hand. For example, they seem to love to rough house with this kid because beating him carries a certain cache, given his size. But then when he's the "winner" they often end up with sore behinds (from landing on them) and hurt feelings.

 

At any rate I'd start out with a discussion of perception and unintentional harm. Maybe this is a good scoutmaster minute kind of thing too, not just for discussion with this one boy. If this kid is acting the part of the bully on the sly, at least you are letting him know you're on to the problem (and of course you'll need to follow up on it). On the other hand if he really has no idea, then it is time to clue him in.

 

Lisa'bob