Vikings- "too cool" attitude affecting younger patrols.

[Falterturm]

Hi, I am a asst. SM and patrol advisor for our oldest patrol, the Vikings. We recently had the Eagle patrol age-out/Eagle out last year- an exceptional group of go-getters. Five of the eight made Eagle. They got along, were motivated, took a lot of responsibility, and thus had alot of respect and freedom.

The Vikings are rising into the role of senior Scouts, and seem to expect the same treatment as the Eagles..unfortunatly they are immature, rarely show up in uniform, do not get involved in patrol activities (off showing off phones and iPods, which are banned BTW)

They sit in patrol meetings and rarely discuss Scout business, slop together menus, and often raise their hands for camp-outs and just not show up. As advisor I go into the meetings and try to guide them, but they largely ignore ANY adult that comes in on the meeting. The younger Scouts really looked up to the Eagles, and they see these guys looking like lazy slobs with no Scout spirit.

 

We are brainstorming to see how we can get them to step up to the plate and lead by example- everything from more freedom/priviledges, etc. But they just keep showing up and schlepping along.

 

No real disrespectful or innapropriate behavior, just total lack of spirit. I do not understand why they even show up.

 

Any ideas on getting them into shape so that everyone can win- young Scouts have good example, older Scouts have respect.

 

[nldscout]

This is a perfect example of the problem with single age group patrols.

 

If those 8 older Eagles had been split amongst the patrols the art of leadship probably would have rubbed off on some of these Vikings. Now it appears you have a Leadership Vacuum and no boy leaders to guide

[Venividi]

Falterturm,

 

You don't make comment on whether the scouts in the Viking patrol are being approved for rank advancement. If they are passing SM conferences and BOR's, then the standards being used for the scout spirit requirement are not in synch with what you would like to see. If they are being rewarded for their current behaviour, they have no reason to change.

 

If, on the other hand, they are not being approved for advancement, and they all lack motivation to do so, then you do have a problem. Perhaps a SM conference with each individually, to discuss what they want to get out of their membership, what activities they would be interested in, and that the troop really needs them to step up. If the reaction is still lack of any spirit, be blunt, and ask your question of why they even want to come to troop meetings.

[FScouter]

"But they just keep showing up and schlepping along."

 

They are bored with the program. Identify the boring parts, change them, and then you'll start to see new excitement.

 

Have the boys planned the program? Have their ideas been nixed by adults? Has the adult committee planned a program and imposed it on the boys? Are the activities designed around the lowest common denominator, that of the boys with the least experience and skills?

 

Breaking them up and forcing them into other patrols with young Scouts is a bad idea. 16-18 yr old boys don't get their excitement living with 11-13 year olds. You'd see an even faster disenchantment.

[evmori]

nldscout hit it on the head!

 

Sure they had an senior patrol to look up to. Now they are the senior patrol & expect respect just because they are the senior patrol! Respect is earned & it sounds like these guys have no clue how to do that. And since the older Scouts have aged out, they have no one to show them. Had the members of the 1st senior patrol worked with this group there might not be this problem.

 

 

I would bust them up. They don't work well together & need a change.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

Hi Falterturm,

welcome to the forum.

I have to admit to being a little puzzled about:

" We recently had the Eagle patrol age-out/Eagle"?

But we can talk about that later.

As to the Vikings.

You don't say what age group these guys are in?

I'm thinking 14 -15?

If this is the case? What they are showing is fairly normal behaviour for this age group.

Venividi,makes a good point about SM conferences. The SM and the other adults need to stop looking at "The Vikings" and start looking at each Scout as an individual.

Maybe next time the adults gather around the camp fire or wherever it is you gather around, you all might want to try and identify the groups natural leader. Chances are that he may not be the PL , more like and I hate to use the word Gang, but the gang leader or ring-leader.

Sadly many of us when we do this spend way too much time talking about what a little toad he really is.

What we need to do is to stop dwelling in a negative past and start planning for a positive future.

The Vikings are not last years Eagle Patrol.

They more than lightly are fed up hearing about how great the Eagles were and how rotten they are. So stop telling them.

Look for the things that each Scout does right. Go out of your way to catch them doing things right and find reasons to heap lots of praise on him or them when they do something well.

Different Scouts respond differently to different adults, try and see if you or the SM can having a Scout work with the adult that he gets along with the best.

If I get on to my son about something he thinks I'm giving him a hard time, but if my best friend Mike tells him exactly the same thing it's fine.

Maybe you can find a way to put the interests of the Scouts to good use?

In another thread someone is trying to match music to a power point presentation, your Scouts have the MP3 files on their i-Pods.

How about talking to local Cub Scout pack and seeing if one or two of the Vikings could attend a Den meeting and show the Cub Scouts how to use a cell phone to make a 9-11 call or maybe take a photo. This might or could lead up to them covering First Aid or Communications with the little fellows, who will really think that these guys are super cool.

When you and the adults do get together ask them to talk about what they did when they were the same age as the Viking Patrol members. Ask them what was cool to them?

Sure the toys have changed, but we all went through the stage of wanting to be accepted by our peers.

Work on bringing the ring-leader around. Sure you may want to hang him up by the ear-phones of his i-Pod, but that's not how we play the game.We offer Offer young people responsible fun and adventure.

Of course it just might be that they really don't want to play and the Troop is not what they want or need. In that case talk with the local Crew.

Eamonn.

 

 

[Falterturm]

Thanks for the good feedback..

 

We considered multi-age patrols, but decided against it for the reasons one of you listed. These guys are all pretty entrenched, most came up through Cubs together- I think that breaking them up would kill it for them, and the name of the game is to keep them involved and having fun.

 

I 100% agree on the advancement issue- I am totally against "gimmes" on Scout Spirit or any other advancement issue. I am happy to let the problematic Scout go all the way through the BOR/SMC and tell him "sorry, the attitude is not that of a Scout". Unfortunatly, not all the leadership agrees.

 

We do not overly praise any one patrol, or act overly critical of the Vikings, but you know, the squeeky wheel gets oiled- and they need oil A LOT.

 

We let the boys plan ALL outings, and never say NO, but we will, for instance say "and where is that budget coming from?" "are you willing to coordinate and perform the fundraising for that very costly trip?" They are pretty good at recognising the impractical ideas.

 

We recently chartered a Venture Crew, which several of the boys joined, and the attitude has actually gotten worse- maybe they sense a looseness with the Crew that they are bringing back over to the Troop.

 

I recognise the wisdom of breaking this up into smaller pieces, and will get one on one with each member of the patrol. Of course, in every "gang" there is a natural leader, and I think the idea of pinning him down and swinging him over to the "dark side" so to speak, is key.

 

Thanks again for the ideas, any more come to mind, post it. I appreciate you being here, glad I found the forum!!