Dealing with your own Son on outings

[ASM59]

ASM59 wrote: "I tend to let one of the other Scoutmasters attend to any direction or discipline that my son may need. In doing so, no one can say there is favoritism and my son does not feel like I am riding him the whole time on outings."

 

SWScouter wrote:

I think this can be a two edged sword. On the one hand, it may accomplish what ASM59 suggests, but on the other, it may appear that the son is favored because the son seems to get away without discipline while the other boys don't. I think this warrants a careful balance.

 

SWScouter, thanks for pointing this out, you are correct. There must be a balance and for sure there are times that I must say something to my son. However, in most instances if I notice that he is doing something that should be corrected, I'll let one of the other leaders know about it and let them take care of it. As a parent, I am on my son all the time at home; get you homework done, clean your room, take out the garbage, clean up your mess... The other boys get a break from home on an outing and get direction from someone other than Mom or Dad. I just want to afford this same opportunity for my son. My tendency would be to get on him more than I would the other boys, so this way of doing things seems to help, but as you point out there is a balance.

 

Do other Scoutmasters out there have a tendency to be harder on your own son? How do you handle this issue so as not to appear to play favorites or make your son feel he must be better than everyone else?

 

ASM59

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

I think you just need to be aware of the potential for problems and deal with it as best you can. In regular troop settings, most things should be done through the youth leaders, so unless your son is the SPL, you probably don't need to work with him directly. Outside of troop activities, I think all you can do is present the opportunities to your Scout, and let him make his own decisions. I'm a SM, and I've got one son who's gung ho and jumps on every opportunity, and a 2nd son who has made it his life mission in Scouts to never do a merit badge. You just deal with them as best you can. The one thing to not do is somehow have your success as an SM be tied in your head to your son's success as a Scout. They aren't related.

[Lynda J]

I grew up in a troop with my mother as the scout leader. Was I expected to set a higher standard than some of the other girls. Dang right I was.

And I knew it. I also knew that I wasn't going to get away with anythings. Did I resent it. Sometimes.

Do I expect more of Kevin than I do other boys in the troop. Yes. One because I know more what he is able to do. And two because his behavour reflects on me.

Our SM has one son that I could kill sometimes. I have seldom met a kid that shows less respect to adults than he does. You will tell him to stop something and he will look at you and keep doing it. And regretfully him mother and dad don't do anything. THere older son is getting better about it.

I try not to be harder on Kevin than I an on other boys but sometimes it sure is hard.

It is hard being the child of a leader. But I also thank my parents for expecting a little more from me.

[nldscout]

It can be harder with your own son. Mine was with me when I was SM and was SPL also.

 

Many a day I thought about investing in a TASER, but resisted the urge. But we both made it, he is now an Eagle and off to collage in the fall. And I tried very hard to not show favoritism.

[msnowman]

Having been Nephew's Cub Scout leader in one fashion or another since starting as his Tiger Partner I have always fought this battle. Yes, I do hold him to a higher standard of acceptable behavior. Partly because his behavior is a reflection on my parenting skills, but also because those are our family rules, not just at Scouts, but our "public" behaviors. Did he resent it? Absolutely when it meant he couldn't raise cain with the non-leader children or it meant he got tagged to help set up the church because he was there with me. Did it harm him? Not at all. More often than not he enjoyed being in on the planning of activities and meetings, so he felt like he knew a "secret". I think that balanced out the annoyances. We would talk about how other people might not think he had done the work necessary to achieve "whatever", so he kept a Cub Scout portfolio with as many of his projects in it as practical. He was also more than happy to "prove" you wrong if you didn't think he knew a skill. He likes to show off what he knows.

 

He has moved on to Boy Scouts now and is loving it. I have made it a point to not become part of Troop leadership, at least for a while, so that he can get his Boy Scout feet under him without always worrying what Tia (his name for me) will think or say. I didn't go to the first camporee, didn't even visit. His two weeks of Boy Scout camp I stayed away except on family invitation nights. I didn't even stay to see him settle in to his camp site or take his swim test (wish I had, as he passed beginners for the first time and I missed it).

 

I think Leader's children are higher achievers because they have the extra involvment. Mine loves Scouts, loves everything about it (except having to swim). He already has his sights set on Eagle (His goal, not mine for him).

 

Michelle

CM - P102

 

[Bob White]

Like with any scout do not step in unless it is a matter of health or safety. Let the boys make it through camp on their own whether they are your son or not.

 

Your job is to stand back and observe. Who is showing good skills, who is not? What skills should the SPL be looking to recylcle instruction on? Who is using good leadership among the scouts?

 

Look for opportunities to praise or counsel quietly, but unless someone is in danger stay out of the patrol and troop leadership scene. that is not an adults job.

[ASM59]

Bob,

 

You are exactly right. This is where it has always been hardest. My tendency is to leave the other boys alone and only get involved where necessary (health or safety). It seems to be just that much harder when I'm watching my own son (especially when he is in a leadership position, ASPL or SPL).

 

It seems to work well for us. He knows that I make this effort, and I think he respects the fact that I do it. I also think this has caused him to make more of an effort to do what he knows I would wish.

 

ASM59

[EagleInKY]

Yeah, I'm sure I'm harder on my own son. Part of this is because I know he's sharp and a RGK (really good kid). He's now the SPL, which brings some unique challenges, but also some great blessings. He and I work together more now than ever before. I'm fortunate that I don't have to call him down very often for behavior issues. And, when I do, it just takes "that look". So, where I may have to have a talk with some other boys, he knows exactly what I mean without me saying a word!

 

I think where I'm harder on him is more in the post-activity analysis. I expect him to pull off everything flawlessly... after all, he's my son. :-) So I'll be critical of things that I probably would have let slide with other SPLs. Is it fair? Probably not. But it's the standard I hold him (and myself) to.

[acco40]

It is difficult to separate being a parent from being a Scout leader to your son. Scatological humor is big with some 12 - 14 yr olds. Every comport seems to have some sort of "fart" joke involved. It is not my cup of tea. I try to distance myself from the boys during such times - it is not a health and safety issue, and they all seem to enjoy it in their own perverse way. As a father, I would not tolerate it at home but on an outing my son knows he has a longer leash.

 

On the flip side, a Scout with a parent as a leader may have a different perspective. It is very natural for a son to ask his father for assistance, regardless if he needs it or not, in cooking, setting up his tent, breaking camp, etc. Why do by yourself if "dad" will help you out. I know I expect much more out of the boys during an outing than most of their parents at home. One of our "unwritten troop rules" is that a Scout may ask any adult for help as long as it is not his father or mother. This seems make the boys more reluctant to ask for help out of pure laziness. It depends on the situation but usually when a Scout asks me for help I redirect them to their PL or if a PL, the SPL/ASPL.

[msnowman]

Acco - the asking for help thing is exactly why I don't Boy Scout with Nephew. I want him to know he can rely on himself and when that isn't enough, that there are other boys and adults who will help when asked.

 

[SWScouter]

Well, I'm going to throw my four cents in since it was my post that spurred ASM59 to spin this thread.

 

Right now, I'm a Webelos Den Leader for my son's den. We recently started the second year of Webelos. I have been the den leader starting the Wolf year. I have no experience working as a leader for Boy Scouts.

 

I try really hard not to be harder or easier on my son compared to how I treat the rest of the boys in the den. Somtimes it's tough though. I've talked to my son several times about it. He understands that I need to treat all the boys equally and, I think, is fine with it and sees that more often than not, I do.

 

He really seems to be glad that I'm the den leader, and I think, proud of that too. His biggest problem with it is that he doesn't ever get to miss an activity because I'm always going to. In that respect, I'm very much harder on my son. I really don't get on the other boys about attendance at all. In general, though, there really isn't any attendance problems with any of the boys.

 

I really do worry about this though. Especially with how things will go when my son crosses over into scouts. Right now, it appears that I will be an SA in the troop. At least that's the impression that I'm getting from the troop leadership. I would be thrilled and honored to be the SM some day if I am asked to fill that position. It worries me though. Not that I'm worried I won't be a good SA or SM, I like to think I can be, but worried that it would not give my son the opportunity to grow as a scout and a young man with me always being there at troop activities like I am now with den activities. I think this trepidation is the same as why Msnowman chose not to be a leader in her Nephew's troop.

 

I don't know how much this addresses ASM59's concerns, but it touches on my biggest concerns of being an SA or SM with a son in the troop. That of the boy being in scouts for himself, not because of my influence on him being in scouts because I am a leader. I do think these two concerns are intimately related though.

 

SWScouter

[Lynda J]

In two years our troop will do a high adventure trek on horseback. I will not be going. I will take the younger boys to base camp. It isn't that I don't like horses. Grew up raising and showing quarter horses. It is mainly because Kevin needs to do activities without me around. Also because after all those year of getting thrown the old hip and shoulder I don't think would take a week in the saddle. But I think it is important that he move on without me. And hopefully because of me. I don't know if I ever mentioned it, but Kevin is a foster, I got him when he was 4,when his mother was sent to prison.

He is now 12. RGK, Smart though we did have to have a discussion about a couple of report cards this year. He is a good scout. Wants Eagle by 16 so he can earn all the palms. At Eagle he wants to be JASM. This year he is going to be a den chief for one of the Bear Dens from our feeder pack. He is really looking forward to it.

He doesn't want to be SPL yet. Commented that there are older boys that need to hold that position before he needs is.

[ASM59]

SWScouter,

 

You are correct that these two are related...

 

It can be very rewarding to be an ASM or SM of your own son's troop. I really think it has helped us both. I was my son's Bear & Webelos leader and moved right into Boy Scouts with him as an ASM. It was the advice of our old SM that made me take a back seat where my son was concerned. Back in the day we started in Boy Scouts, the Troop was very much adult lead and therefore I had to be more careful. Now that we have moved into a boy lead situation and my son has grown & matured perhaps this is not as big of a concern (as pointed out by BW). Allowing the other leaders to address situations where they need to be addressed has helped us (my son and me) to find a good balance. We do discuss things in more detail sometimes at home, but for the most part on outings it is the other leaders that take care of anything to do with my son (unless there is some immediate safety issue).

 

When it comes to the Troop that your son will join, perhaps they could really use your input and assistance. Remember, the more adult leadership the Troop has, the fewer outings that you'd really need to go on, thus giving your son the chance to be on some outings without Dad. This also helps the existing leaders as they wouldn't need to be on all outings.

Just something to think about.

 

ASM59

[EagleInKY]

Challenging? Sure it is. But if you can adjust to the idea of allowing your son to be "just one of boys" while in the scout arena, you can develop a truly special relationship with him. And, you get a little peek into what his future is going to be like. I see it as a true blessing and will cherish these times forever. Sure, we all need our space from time to time, and we find ways to do that. I wouldn't trade these days for anything.

[KoreaScouter]

Timely topic; I had this discussion just last night after a program planning session with a long-time ASM who will be taking over for me in the near future. We have a new ASM (father of a first-year Scout) who, like many in his situation, "hovers" a little...okay, maybe more than a little. Means well, just doesn't have the training yet (that'll happen this month) or the experience to find the right groove in the record -- in my experience, that sorts itself out very early. I related my long standing goal regarding my Scouting relationship with little KS; that is, if a total stranger walked into our campsite, they'd have no idea which kid was mine.

 

Now, I don't necessarily like it that way all the time, because the main reason I started doing this was to enjoy it with him. However, you've got to let him be his own person, so I let him determine how much casual contact we have on outings. He's the SPL now, so we spend more time together by necessity.

 

Am I "harder" on him than others, or expect more from him? You bet. As others have said, his behavior reflects on me, and I do expect him to be beyond reproach. Plus, by being around me in and out of meetings/outings, and seeing firsthand how much effort this takes to do it right, he has a better idea than most boys do regarding how the pieces fit together, how many hours of planning are required to deliver an hour of program, and so on -- I insist that he respect other people's efforts. But wait, there's more. Since we live together, I know what he's capable of in school, at home, at church, etc. I set the bar just a little bit higher to challenge him. We've talked about this at some length, and he understands the dynamics. I've tried to weave all that together with his responsibilities as a big brother, an oldest child, an able-bodied American, an Eagle Scout, an Arrowman, and any other icon I can use. Like any father of a teenage boy, my fingers are permanently crossed. But so far, it's working out just fine.

 

Personally, I wouldn't worry for a minute about being a leader in your son's Troop. I think it's perfectly normal to wonder about the human dynamics, and how that'll be perceived. But, if you're wondering about it at all, that tells me you'll probably handle it in a most healthy and productive way. The last thing I'd ever do is insist that parents avoid their own boys to prevent a perception of favoritism. If you're the SM, you set the tone for others to follow by your relationship with your son. Assuming it's not dysfuntional, everyone else should be okay too. Let's face it, most of our leaders are parents of boys in our Troops, right? I wouldn't want to police multiple informal "restraining orders" (you can't sign off for him, don't go with that patrol, find someone else to counsel him, and so on) -- I'd tear out what little hair I have left.

 

How will you know you're doing it right? Your son will let you know...

 

KS