Reply to Kristi's concern on safety

[Lynda J]

If you want to have a program where there is never a chance of anyone getting hurt then you had better have a padded room and let everyone sit around the edges and never move.

Folks it simply isn't going to happen. Had a boy in my Cub Den break his arm. He jumped up to catch a baseball, fell and landed with his arm twisted under him. The thing he was proud of was that he caught the ball and didn't turn it lose.

One of my boys had a bike wreck at summer camp. Skinned up his arms and legs. But we required them to wear helmets and gloves when riding. But nothing more than scrapes.

 

If a child is going to have any type of real life there is always going to be a risk of injury. Yes we can do things that reduce that. Training, and common sense. Shoot. I can't even make sure I never get hurt.

 

[scoutldr]

I agree, Lynda. Broken arms, scrapes, bug bites and poison ivy are one thing and are a part of a normal boy's growing up. Coming home with Scouts in body bags is quite another.

[GopherJudy]

I believe in Juris' post what happened didn't really happen, he started off with the word "Example" & then typed a story. I would hope that it would never happen in the future.

 

I spoke to my son Mark (almost 11 & a Boy Scout since March) about the Brennan Hawkins incident (can't think of another term) & we discussed the importance of the buddy system among other things. I reminded him of how important it is when he goes to summer camp & at other scouting activities.

 

Carol - I think that Beavah was using "Da" to mean "the" maybe he or she is from the NYC or Long Island area where we would say that! I think what you're talking about is "Duh" as when someone says something that's obvious & your reply is "Duh!". I'm 48 & I still say "Duh"! I also say "yous guys", "how ya doin'" & "I'll tawk to ya later!" (I had to type "later" correctly even though for me as a Long Islander when I say the word it ends in "a" as we don't like words ending in "r"!

 

My son had a "freak accident" at home last year, he fell out of bed & fractured his collar bone! No, he doesn't sleep in a bunk bed; he sleeps in a normal twin bed but when he fell out of bed in his sleep, the way he landed on his shoulder, he fractured his collar bone. He screamed his head off & it was very difficult to find out exactly what happened! The next morning I had to bring him to the ER as it was a Sunday & they put his arm in a sling & that was all that could be done beside some pain medication & an ice pack.

 

Some things are preventable but some are not. It's like when I was around 8 years old & I decided to ride my bike with no hands. I was doing good until I got in some sand that was on the side of the road & I slid it in & wound up chipping my 2 front teeth! Was that preventable? Yes, I shouldn't have been riding with no hands!

 

Not too long ago on the news was a story of a Scout who fell overboard on a whale watching boat that I believe was in MA. The Boy Scout troop was from Staten Island & had gone up there for the day (I think) The boy that fell overboard was 14 & he & a few other boys, who I believe were the same age) were jumping up & down on the boat in time with the waves! Now, the boys were told by several adults that were with the troop & by several of the crew members to stop jumping up & down on the boat. The did not listen & because of this & lacking common sense on the boys part, the one boy fell overboard & drowned. Someone jumped overboard to try & rescue him but it was to no avail. This was a very preventable incident & 14 year olds should have enough common sense not to jump up & down on a boat.

 

Judy

[johnmbowen]

Well, I didn't get into this thread till it was mostly all over, however, it is one of the things that I have always been concerned about with scouting. There is a huge overemphasis in protecting boys from pedophiles, which is sometimes necessary, but rather rare. It stems from the problem that the main office listens too much to the hard core relegious right. Of more concern is the fact that every active Troop of Crew takes out kids into the outdoors on trips at least once a month, as asked for. Most of these folks stay within their experience envelopes, and provide their kids with rather trivial outing experiences, not what is shown in their handbooks. Any adventurous activities are bought from outfitters, including canoeing, rafting, climbing etc.

 

There is of course a few groups which actually try to do the things that are listed in the handbook other than backpacking. These include climbing, (yes backpacking), skiing, mountaineering, caving, whitewater canoeing, kayaking, caving, vertical caving, and international mountaineering. (All of which my Troop 136 from Laramie, WY has done, and with a perfect safety record).

 

What is required is knowlegible adult leadership and the willingness of the adults to actually teach the kids the techniques, skills, knowledge and to have them train hard to be more than just a tourist. When you take kids ice and snow climbing - well you have to train them in the skills needed. That means that you must KNOW the skills, and well. Rather than rely on fathers who are reliving their childhood, we have relied on adult experts in the field (none of whom have ever proved to be pedophiles), and we have shown that we can actually do all of the skills and outings mentioned in this thread, including spending the night confortably, and without frostbite in far subzero conditions, and at 14000 feet.

 

What is needed is advanced training for adult scouters who take their scouts regularly into the outdoors. This includes long courses such as Wilderness First Aid, or better Wilderness First Responder (City first aid and First Aid MB are introductions), Swift Water Rescue (Safety Afloat is a joke), and comprehensive climbing classes - few if any which are offered, or even mentioned by BSA.

 

There is a real reason why my friends who are Park or Forest Rangers cringe, and get prepared for rescue when a Scout unit enters into their area - Scouters are NOT PREPARED. When I got a permit for my Crew to run Westwater Canyon, the Ranger asked me if we were going to use canoes (?!) - I told her no, that we adults were also professional whitewater guides, and she told me that one scout unit asked that very question!

 

It is time for Scout Leaders to grow up and learn what they are trying to teach.

[OldGreyEagle]

::Sitting in corner thoroughly chastised, tho no idea why. Also wondering if that sound in the distance is an axe being ground.