Suspended!

[SeattlePioneer]

Well, a boy who had been scating along on thin ice for some time managed to get himself suspended after a magnificant collection of foul ups at the Pack overnight our Troop was assisting with last weekend.

 

This 11 year old had been trying the patience of Scouts and Scouters, the Scoutmaster in particular. A dirty mouth and aggressive behavior have been the main complaints. The Scoutmaster had talked with me about the desireability of suspending him or requiring a parent along on outings.

 

This past weekend was a corker, though. 1) I personally saw him give a shove to a much larger boy who was already off balance, sending him for a bad fall which could easily have produced injuries 2) he and his tentmate got up and wandered around camp late at night 3) despite the warning to all the Scouts to treat the Cub Scouts supremely well, this boy was caught squirting a Cub Scout with deoderant 4) after returning from camp, the boys father called the Scoutmaster to report his son had $20 in cash he shouldn't have. This turned out to be a part of $30 cash missing by the boy's tentmate who had the money to pay in Scout fees.

 

Last night the boy, his father, Scoutmaster, Troop Commmittee chair and another Troop Committee member discussed these issues, and decided to suspend the boy for the remainder of the month. Apparently everyone involved agreed on that action.

 

I think it's a good decision, too. It's long enough to give the boy something to think about, and he'll miss a daycamp at a carnival and weekend bicycle camping trip. But he'll be back in time to demonstrate good behavior before summer camp in late July.

 

He's going to have to shape up or ship out, though.

 

This was an easy call. It might well be argued that such action should have been taken earlier over the bad language/aggressive behavior issues.

 

When I was Scoutmaster twenty odd years ago, there was a boy who had behavior issues. While I talked to his parents about those things, and we gave him "time outs" sometimes, I never wound up suspending him. That was probably a mistake, I say now.

 

Letting behavior challenged Scouts get away with too much too long can drive better Scouts out of the unit, discourage better behaved boys and the behavior doesn't seem to correct itself over any reasonable amount of time.

 

I'll be interested to see how this boy reacts to this suspension.

 

Anyone else with stories on how suspensions or disciplinary actions have affected behavior by Scouts?

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Lynda J]

Suspending a scout is one of the hardest things a leader ever has to do. I know. I had to do it to a boys that came up in my Web group. But he left me little choice.

One old time scouter that I talked to about it ask me this.

"if you weren't having to spend so much time dealing with this ONE boy how much better a program could you give the 17 other boys in the troop?" I had to admit a lot. I spent at least half of each meeting or outing trying to deal with his aggression.

It saddened me and made me feel like a failure (we are supposed to save them all aren't we)to have to let him go, but our troop is running so much better and smoother.

[SeattlePioneer]

LyndaJ ---you ask if we aren't supposed to save them all. That's often an argument I use to justify too often tolerating poorly disciplined Scouts.

 

But I suspect it's too often a mistake on my part.

 

As you note, one problem child can disrupt a meeting ---even cause injuries. And bad boys can and do drive good Scouts out of a Troop. That's a VERY high price to pay.

 

And we expect boys to take the Scout oath and law seriously, but how serious are WE if we continuously tolerate bad behavior?

 

So I am acknowledging the error of my ways: we are NOT supposed to save them all. We are supposed to provide an environment in which the values of Scouting are respected and can flourish.

 

That probably means being willing to suspend or separate boys who aren't willing or able to respect Scouting values.

 

 

But maybe I'm wrong. I'm interested in hearing the comments of other Scouters.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[EagleInKY]

Around the end of the year, we lost three scouts. Two were lazy, whiners who had a mom with a really bad attitude. They decided to join the troop at their church. I couldn't have been happier for them/us/everyone involved. We then had to ask a boy to leave the troop. He had an extremely bad attitude, talked back to adults and scout leaders, and had one case of physical violence with another scout. It was tough to do, but it was to the "it's him or me" point.

 

It's amazing how much smoother the troop is running now. All of the boys have a better attitude. Even the ones who I thought were good friends with these guys are a lot happier. I think it's a combination of not having the lazy, bad attitude around; and the fact that we adults have more time to spend on delivering a quality program to all of the scouts.

[Venividi]

> I'm interested in hearing the comments of other Scouters.

 

I think its a balancing act. Scouting is a place where scouts can fail, pick themselves up, and get a chance to do better. Some may be looking for attention and will really try to do better after a conference or two. Others benefit from a positive incentive (example: ice cream after the next campout to any patrol that maintains good scout spirit. This may get patrol members to put positive peer pressure on the scout to toe the line). Some require consequences - he may not recognize that what he is doing is serious if he does not see any consequences as serious. Perhaps there are even some that don't really want to be in the troop, and are using bad behaviour as a way to leave.

 

If you and the PLC have tried positive approaches, consulted other leaders on potential solutions and they haven't worked, do keep in mind that the rest of the troop (and their parents) are counting on you to make sure that the troop remains a safe haven. Safety is an SM responsibility - both physical and emotional. And scouts are looking to see what standards you accept.

 

Also consider the scout law as it applies to us as adult leaders:

Can the scouts TRUST scouters to make sure that there is a safe and fun environment? Can scouts TRUST scouters to keep their word (and/or any troop bylaws)with respect to discipline?

Are scouters being LOYAL to the troop if one boy is allowed to continually disrupt the troop?

Etc.

 

If we are doing our jobs right, the need to suspend a scout should happen infrequently. If bad behaviour has been tolerated in the past, scouts see that as the accepted standard for the troop, and you may see it more often. That you are struggling with the decision probably means that this happens infrequently in your troop.

 

Good Luck

Venividi

[wyomingi]

I would not suspend the boy. I would suggest that, if he wants to stay in scouting, he should find another troop and then refund his registration.

 

We had a scout like the one described above. He left meetings without permission, hit other scouts, and was disrespectful to adults. His mother was mad because he was not a patrol leader. Last weekend on a campout I found out that one of his friends is a very nice kid and has a lot of potential. He was just being led astray by the other boy. If the first boy had remained in the troop we would have lost two boys.

[DugNevius]

Is suspending him really going to change his attitude? From my experience, those scouts that are constant discipline issues dont ever change their attitude until THEY want to. Sometimes it never happens and eventualy the scout is either asked to leave or, more often they just weed themselves out. One scout our SM asked to leave ended up going in and out of prison for petty crimes. Another went to culinary school and got married.

 

Sometimes, troubled scouts just wake up. We had one boy who was a constant issue. At summer camp he was physically hurting his bunkmate. At meetings he was constantly disrubtive. I believed that his boy would never make it to the rank of star. We are going to philmont this summer. Last march we went on a training hike and this boy just broke down. He hadnt brought he required gear, fell into a lake to get soaked and with 5+ miles to go began to walk at a brutally slow pace. At the end of this trip we had to have a meeting with him and inform him because of his terribly poor mental attitude and his preformance on that trip he was on the verge of being cut. He didnt go to summer camp. This semptember as we regrouped this scout was a changed boy. He worked with scouts to get them advanced, he got Star, won an election to be a PL for the new scouts, led them to second place in our troop olympics. For Philmont, when we needed a scout to switch from one crew to the other he vollunteered. Last month he was made assistant crew leader. This past weekend, when his crew leader became too ill to go on a hike he took over and did well in his place. in 2 weeks, at our pot luck dinner, he will be given scout of the year. Im banking he gets eagle.

 

sometimes the troubled scouts wake up and realize, life is much better when people are on your side, if yu win them over with the right attitude. Sometimes they realize they would rather be someplace else.

[CA_Scouter]

If suspension doesn't change his attitude, then he's OUT!

 

I had to suspend one scout for 90 days, due to repeated bad behavior, including violence and property damage, this after many warnings, counseling, etc... he just couldn't control his anger.

 

I had to suspend another for 30 days for rough play where he left bruises on another kid, again, many warnings about keeping hands off.

 

This is definitely the hardest thing for a SM to do.. I lost plenty of sleep over these two boys, my stress level was through the roof, and our troop program has suffered for it. I spent more time and effort dealing with these two than with the other 15. However, after much consultation with staff and Committee, we all decided it was necessary.

 

Scouting is a priviledge. Its not a counseling program, rehabilitation or therapy. We are there to deliver a program to ALL the scouts, not just a select few.

 

I'm hopeful that my suspendees will see the error of their ways, and return to the troop and become contributers. If not, then sorry, see ya later...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ManyIrons]

In my short tenure as Scoutmaster I've had to warn one Scout that he needed to change his ways or he would be taking a vaction from Scouting.

 

He'd only been with us for a few months and was prone to temper tantrums -- the classic varitety: screaming, crying, whining etc. usually due to him not getting his way, or from a perceived slight done to him.

 

Although I had had many discussions with him about his behavior and how to deal with his frustrations, the last incident (which involved shouting at an adult) took the cake. I immediately sat him down and laid it all out.

 

For the past month, that young man has flown level and true. However; I was fortunate enough to have 2 things on my side. 1. His mother gave him the same admonishments as I did, and backed me thoroughly. 2. The boy loves Scouting and sees the value of correcting his behavior.

 

I'm really pleased to see his progress. The other evening I praised him for his behavior and told him I was impressed with the positive changes he has made.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but I think this Scout is going to make it.

[FScouter]

I like that approach and I've used it as well. Sometime you have to search for the tiniest speck of improvement and heap on the compliments. Kids like that and it leads to another tiny speck and another and another ...

[evmori]

Is anyone noticing a disturbing trend among our youth in this thread? Violence, prone to anger, lashing out, lack of respect. This is scary!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SemperParatus]

A few years ago, we suspended two boys for three months. One quit. The other one changed his behavior and attitude and has become one of our finest older scouts. I would have never guessed that, but he really took it to heart and assessed what it was he wanted to do and how much he wanted to put into and get out of scouting.

[Beavah]

In 20 years, I've seen:

 

2 expulsions (marijuana & behavior)

1 suspension/expulsion (repeated bullying)

1 suspension/expulsion (repeated gross safety issues w/behavior problems)

 

A few other suspensions (behavior/fighting) that turned kids around.

 

It is hard to do as an adult. Many adults don't care enough about their kids to do things like suspensions when they need to. But if things aren't working, you have to change the environment if the boys (all of them) are going to learn anything.

[mc99218]

Better to spoil the child than bend the rod???

 

Many times this exuberant boys need the true scouting meme and experience to learn enough to change for what we consider the better.

We can bend them to our will with a tough disciplinary code and if that fails there is always bigger and better prisons.

 

Many gatherings of youth in scouting is not scouting at all but rather socializing and facilitating socializing or outright charitable works.

 

The founders of modern scouting , Baden Powell, Seton . Beard et al, were opposed to this type of camping club and preffered the batterings of nature to teach youth the ways of rocks and hard places....

 

Its our watch

Whats it to be

Robots or individuals of consequence?

 

MCCET

PMTNPO

[ASM59]

We had a boy come into our Troop from the local Pack a little over a year ago. He came with warnings from his Webelos leader that he doesn't listen to leaders, is disrespectful, breaks as many rules as possible, and none of the other boys in the den liked him. We had a total of 7 boys come in from Webelos that year and they were all put together in the same Patrol.

 

After only 3 months we put into place a written disciplinary policy, for the first time in our Troop's history; all because of this one boy. He initially pushed the limit of the disciplinary policy; the next step being a 2 month suspension.

 

Apparently, the fear of that suspension did something to change his attitude. He began working with the other boys, listening to his leadership, and generally becoming a much more likeable young man. Today, he has earned the respect of the other boys around him, even at school. He has earned back the trust of the leaders as well. His negative attitude is all but gone. Could be that he has just matured over the last year, but I really think that seeing that disciplinary policy in writing and seeing that we were serious about enforcing it was what pushed him to change.

 

ASM59