Parent who doesn't set a good example

[EagleInKY]

In another post, Barry asks "What about the parents? Do they care, do they want to care, and do they want to be involved?"

 

I've got a parent that's a RGG (Really Good Guy). Everybody likes him, he's quite a character and lots of fun to be around. He's a committee member for the troop and attends about 1/2 of the campouts. He understands boy leadership and doesn't try to get in the way. He lets me and the ASMs do our jobs. When asked, he'll help out in just about any way. He's got some particularly strong skills in some areas, and we try to pull him in to help on those when he can.

 

In addition, he's quite the big kid. When the guys are hanging around the campfire, he can be quite entertaining. Whatever the situation, he makes them forget about being tired, hungry, hot, cold or soaking wet.

 

Sounds too good to be true, huh? Well, the downside is his language and his tendancy to say inappropriate things. He tries to watch his language, but several expletives will slip out during a typical campout. He'll also joke about things like wishing he had a beer or a woman.... you get the idea. On our last campout, his son let out an expletive. I asked him to not talk that way. He said "why not, my dad does". His dad just laughed and said he had a point and asked why I made such a big deal about it. After all, "they hear it everywhere else". I told him that was fine, but they didn't need to hear it in Boy Scouts.

 

The others leaders feel the same as me. They like him being around, but want him to control himself better. So, what would you do? Have you handled situations like this?

[SemperParatus]

You need to have a serious conversation with him about the language situation and let him know in no uncertain terms that he needs to watch his mouth. While boys may hear that kind of language at home, in school, on television, etc. - scouting is meant to be a place that is a cut above the norm where the behavior expectation is set at a higher level. If you deal with this seriously and with the tact and concern you demonstrate on this forum, he will understand and tone it down.

 

I have a similar adult - likes to think he is 'one of the boys'. Tries to be fun-loving and a pal. One day, he thought it would be cute to 'moon' some campers. I drew some boundaries for him and things have been fine for the past several years. In these situations, its almost like dealing with a pre-adolescent boy. We need to remind them sometimes that they are now adults.

 

Good luck.

[bbng]

I'm afraid I may not be much help, but here's my experience. First, where it didn't work: registered leaders were using poor language and making inappropriate remarks (sexist, racist), and I went face to face to those who were and asked them to please watch what they said around my son and the boys. I was laughed at. I countered with "we're all leaders here and adults, and though you find this funny, I think we should hold ourselves and one another accountable to the Scout Oath and Law." I was laughed at even harder, and some rude things were said. My point here: some people won't change.

 

On the other hand, an active parent--an RGG --was always around, always lending a hand, always willing to do anything to help out. No complaints, but the language was non-stop foul. So, I go to this person one on one, say how much I appreciate his help and enthusiasm, but say that I sure do want to help him avoid being embarrassed when we head to camp as some of the language used by him would draw attention--unwanted attention. He was angry at first, but about a week later, he thanked me. Not long after that, he wanted to be a leader. He became a leader, and he got a uniform. An interesting thing happened. He cleaned up his act big time, and while in uniform particularly, he was very conscious of his words and actions. I respected that and told him so. Is it possible that this RGG of yours would respond to the approach of (1) he is embarrassing himself though he may not yet know it (it seems like he's respected except for the language), and (2) that maybe he's a guy who could become an adult leader if he cleans up his language, and in turn, he'd become an even greater asset?

 

Just some thoughts. I don't envy you this; it's a tough one.

[madkins007]

My first step would just be a 'word to the wise' talk... but I'd have someone deliver it that he will really listen to. Not implying that you may not be that person, but in most groups, people naturally tend to trust and respect different people.

 

I have also noticed that our old Committee Chair, a very nice but very petite woman, was usually WONDERFULLY successful in dealing with 'potty mouth' issues! It just may be a more powerful message from someone like a female Scouter. (At least it eliminates the 'hey, we're all just guys here' excuse!)

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting post, bbng.

 

Wow, it's really sad that you had several adult leaders laughing at you. Dealing with that problem then becomes the problem of the Scoutmaster or Troop Committee Chair, I'd say. If they are a part of the problem, then it ought to be up to the Chartered Organization Rep to provide guidance on such an issue.

 

The Troop I was ASM for a year ago permitted families at Camporee (a bad idea, in my view). Worse, one single mom was foul mouthed, nasty in talking to her children and smoked to boot.

 

The SPL had the nerve to ask her not to smoke, and she complained about that to the Scoutmaster, who backed up the SPL in plain language. I felt rather sorry for this woman, who was plainly overwhelmed with her family. On the other hand, the children were of no help whatsoever to the mother. Her Scout-son was a good Scout when acting as a Scout and of absolutely no help to his overwhelmed mother when he was in the role of a child!

 

I like to tell parents that one of the best reason to go along on Scout outings is the opportunity to see their son at his best. Then I tell them that the OTHER best reason to go on Scout outing is for their son to see the parents at their best.

 

Sometimes it doesn't work that way, but usually parents are influenced to be at their best, just as the rest of us are.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Eamonn]

Dealing with adults can be very hard.

Our Council has five Cub Scout parent and son weekends a year.

In the information packet that everyone receives, the BSA alcohol policy is explained and the fact that the camp is in a State Park, which also has a no alcohol policy.

Still at the end of each weekend we find evidence of alcohol.

The information packet explains that anyone caught will be asked to leave the camp and take their son home.

I enjoy the odd adult beverage, but I can't understand how these parents would risk embarrassing themselves in front of their son.

I have to think that if they are unable to go one night without a drink they really must have a problem

Each of these weekends is staffed by volunteers from each of the Districts. Some of the Districts wait till late at night and send people out to try and catch offenders. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever been sent home.

I have to admit to not trying to catch anyone. But that's just me.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

I am all for being upfront and honest with my concerns (big surprise).

Ask the adult for the opportunity to have a serious discussion about the goals of the program and the role of the adult leaders.

 

Ask for his input on what the role and responsibilities of the adults leaders should be when it comes to setting a good example for the scouts.

 

Explain that his language needs to change because of the influence it is having on the scouts and on the image of the program. Ask if he understands why this is a concern. Tell him of his value to the troop beacuse of his skills ad enthusiasm but that it does not outweigh the damage done by his language.

 

Ask him what he believes can be done to remedy the situation.

[EagleInKY]

Thanks to all.

 

And Bob, I'm not surprised you recommend being direct. But I do like your approach to this situation. I wish all of your answers were handled so gently.

[FScouter]

I had success with this problem once and never had to say a word to the adult. A boy in the troop became frustrated and let loose a series 4-letter verbs and adjectives. This was within earshot of the adult that used inappropriate adjectives on occasion. I pulled the boy aside, in the presence of the adult, and together "we" spoke to the boy about his choice of words. The "clean" part of the Scout Law, and how those kinds of words are used by people that were limited in their vocabulary and had difficulty communicating and expressing themselves. And that kind of talk is offensive to many people and is not "kind" and "courteous" as well. And that as a respected boy in the troop, he had an obligation to set a good example for others.

 

The adult leader said nothing, but he cleaned up his mouth.

[Eagledad]

I tried dealing with these situations as topics in the ASM meetings and not dealing with person directly. If the adult is still a problem after that, then I talked to them directly. But that was rare.

 

Barry

[Lynda J]

I would be tempted to ask this father what other areas he is willing to set such a very low standard for his son and other boys in the troop.

I am sorry. If this guy was a parent in my troop he would not attend any scouting event, including troop meetings using that type of language.

Don't get me wrong. I can cuss with the best of them. Grew up around rodeos and horse shows. But around my boys I expect more of myself.

That type of language to me is a symptom of a lazy mind.

[Cubmaster Mike]

Way to go Lynda! Lazy mind is the right term. We all have enough control over the English language that we do not not need to use expletives. A Scout is Clean in mind, body and actions.

 

The restrictions on outings are simple. No swearing, no alcohol, no smoking. When we're camping, we set the example 24/7. If they can't abide by the rules, then don't come.

 

I remember one time I let me language slip as a boy scout in camp. My goodness did one of the parents come down on me hard! And so did my parents when we got home and he told them....ouch....

[Lynda J]

When I was a Web 1 leader had a boy transfer into our den from a den in Kansas. We were going on a camping trip with the troop. Themother was really uneasy about her son going. She point blank ask me it we drank on camping trips. I told her under so condition did any adult going camping with drink while we were responsible for kids. She told me that the pack she had been in made the boys go to their tents at 9:00 and lights out was at 10:00 and at 10 the ice chest with the beer came out. Believe me I like a good drink once in a while myself. But if I ever caught an adult drinking at a camping trip or on BSA property I would contact the camp ranger, and the council. At depending on the conditions might even call the police on the adults. Have no patients with adults taking chances like that when they are responsible for kids. Can you imagine calling a parent to tell them their child was injured and your were to drunk to drive them to the hospital.

NOT THIS OLD BROAD.

[evmori]

Take the RGG aside & explain he either cleans it up or he's gone! If you won't (and you shouldn't) tolerate this from the Scouts you shouldn't tolerate it from the adults!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[schleining]

I think that every Troop has one of those parents in the evolution of the Troop.

Yeah we have one too...

I had a couple complaints from other parents about him, I had overheard some things also, so I thought honesty and candor are the best policies.

I took him aside and explained to him what we were trying to accomplish with the Scouts. He got it.

I also told him that if he did not want to conform to our program than I would have to exclude him from activities in the future.

I also told him about the great kid he had and what a fantastic contribution he makes to the Troop and that during a SM Conference his son expressed to me the fact that he wants to hang out with his Dad. Well this got the guy.. What Dad does not want to be woth their son...

I have not had a problem since. He comes to campouts (will not register as a leader) but he helps when and were he can, and we have not had the issues of the past.

 

Candor and Honesty... sure went a long way for me.

 

Jerry