You Can't Fool All The People All The Time.

[FScouter]

What does the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Troop Committee Guidebook advise about how to run an adult patrol?

[Hunt]

Fscouter, are you asking what those resources say because you don't know, or because you do know and are trying to make a point? I wish folks would stop using this particular rhetorical device. It's not very helpful.

 

I assume that they don't say anything about it, and that your point is that you shouldn't form an adult patrol. That point has been made before by others. Would it satisfy you if the adults camped and functioned as a "group" that wasn't called a patrol? If one of them "coordinated" joint tasks, such as cooking, as long as he doesn't claim to be a "patrol leader?" It certainly seems to me that a group of adults sharing a campsite could model behavior that would be a good example to youth patrols--you don't have a problem with that, right? What, in your mind, is the line that this adult group shouldn't cross in forming a patrol? Can they put up a flag with a picture of an Old Goat on it? (For what it's worth, I don't think the adults should compete with the youth patrols.)

[evmori]

I agree with Hunt. An adult patrol functioning as a Scout patrol can & should be a good example for the Scouts.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SeattlePioneer]

A couple of weeks ago I started a thread about "The Old Goat Patrol" because I didn't know if it was a good idea.

 

We have a very small Troop with one functioning patrol. Having an adult patrol that lines up and snaps to attention when order is called for helps set a good example for the Scouts, and is a better form of leadership than correcting Scouts, I thought.

 

Also, adults need to sign up for outings, plan menues and rosters for cooking and doing dishes too, and these things weren't being done in a very organized way. An adult patrol where signing up for such things could be helpful.

 

However, I wouldn't want adults to be competing with Boy Scouts. That should not be an aim or function of an adult patrol, in my view. But helping to set a good example, getting necessary tasks completed and training adults new to Scouting in the methods of Scouting all seem like potentially useful reasons to have an adult patrol to me.

 

Of course, many troops may not need that kind of formal structure. I suggest this idea only as something to be considered where it will serve useful purposes.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Student]

The "old goat" patrol might also serve as a training platform for those adults who will become Scout leaders in the future.

[FScouter]

Student posted that there are adults associated with the troop that want to be Scouts themselves. They want to participate in Scout skills, play Scout games, and do their sons service projects. The question What does the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Troop Committee Guidebook advise may be rhetorical, but if Student looks in those books for guidance, he will not find adult patrol as an answer to his problem.

 

Im a firm believer that units that follow the concepts found in the books dont have these kinds of problems. If the adult patrol idea is truly a good one, it would be discussed in the adult leader books and in the adult leader trainings. Rather than invent a new idea, why not first read the books, take the trainings, and work those ideas first, the ideas that are already proven to be successful?

 

Adults that want to participate in Scouting should be welcomed. To be effective and to be of the most benefit to the troop, their enthusiasm and talents need to be channeled to where they can be most effectively used. Start by registering them as adult leaders. Appoint them specific assistant Scoutmaster or committee positions with defined responsibilities. Get them a copy of the Scoutmaster Handbook or Troop Committee Guidebook and get them trained.

 

An adult patrol with patrol patches, yell, duty rosters, and service projects just doesnt fit in with the roles adults need to assume. Modeling desired behaviors doesnt require an adult patrol. If you want to teach boys how to wash dishes, go to the patrol campsite and explain how it is done. Teach them. Washing dishes on the other side of camp as an adult patrol, while a Scout patrol struggles does not teach them how to wash dishes.

 

[Bob White]

I'm with FScouter.

[Hunt]

Maybe a way to phrase this question might be, "How should the group of adults attending a campout organize themselves?" Generally, they will camp and cook separately from the boys. It's obvious to me that the way they do things will serve as an example to the boys. I don't know how many times I've read about adults inspiring boys to better meals by example. I understand that some folks don't think the adults should BE a patrol, but don't you think that in many respects they should function LIKE a patrol?

I can see why one would not want the adults to compete with the youth, but what, exactly, is the harm to the program that is averted by avoiding having an "Old Goat Patrol" with a flag, or even a yell? How does this interfere with the adult leadership roles at a campout (where the adults should stay out of the boys' hair as much as possible anyway)? Could it be that the materials don't discuss these practices because they are usually harmless fun that don't harm the program at all?

[evmori]

The Scoutmaster Fundamental course my district runs places adults into patrols. When I took Wood Badge, I was placed in a patrol. Hmmm.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

but notice that the trainers who play the role of the SM and ASMs do not. hmmm

[FScouter]

It is great for adults to exercise good Scouting skills and practices. Its another thing to start acting as if they are Boy Scouts. The problem stated that turned the direction of this thread was that the adults in the troop were playing Boy Scout. That is not the role of an adult leader. Facilitating this adult game by organizing them into a patrol lends legitimacy to the practice.

[evmori]

Who's playing? Having the adults act as a patrol can be a great teaching method for new adults in the troop & can also be a great example for the boys. I don't think there is anything in the BSA manuals that states "Adult patrols serve no purpose therefore should not be used." And I don't think there is anything in the BSA manuals that states "Adult patrols serve a purpose and should be used." But if the BSA didn't think the adults should function in patrols they probably wouldn't place adults in patrols to train them.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Student]

Mr. Fscouter and Mr. White, I understand you do not care for the adult patrol concept. Let me then ask for your advice. As I had posted earlier, the adult "Scouts" include our (trained) committee chair. It also includes the majority of our committee members. So the tactic of signing these folks up for troop support positions or training is unavailable. In conversations with our CR, the CR does not distinguish the issue. After a thorough search, I have found no recommendations in any of the BSA literature. Your recommendations?

 

Student

[Lynda J]

My very wise Dad use to say

"A great leader is someone who leads from the shadows, that manages to get things done without blowing his own horn or anyone realizing he was doing it."

I have knows good leaders that were not good people and I have known Great people that were not good leaders.

[Lynda J]

In our troop all registered adults are part of the Wise Ole Owls Patrol. This included the SM, all the ASMs, and any adult that is going on the camping trip. When our new boys move up their parents are invited to attend the first camping trip they go on as a BS. The SM makes it VERY clear that they will tent with the adult patrol. They will cook with the adult patrol. And that they will not be involved in activities of the boys patrols unless invited by the Patrol Leader.

 

It works. We are there if the boys need help or advice. We do sit around the campfire at night together. But the boys do everything as a patrol and the adults stay with theirs.

My Kevin ask if I was going to go next summer to High Adventure. I told him NO. Because I think it is important that he begins to grow outside the box where I am there. I will stay in base camp with the boys that can't go on the High Adventure trip.