NEVER GIVE A BUM A THIRD CHANCE?

[theysawyoucomin']

Bob,

Usually I have you on squelch, however, I got curious and read you post. Your experience is vast and I am sure you worked hard to earn it. I have been on the receiving end of some of you comments and thought they voilated the "courteous" point of the scout law.

All that being said, I meant to paint a word picture using metphors. If my words were harsh in describing three knuckleheads I apoligize to All. I understand that God made all children. He also gave us free choice.

 

EagleDad and Korea Scouter,

 

This is my first time on the committee where we had "an incident". We will discuss it on Sunday evening. I came here for wise anonymous consel prior to the meeting. I would agree parents need to know, underscore. I would also concur that the family has them for the balance of their time. Some Good , Some bad.

Our society blames teachers for their lack of ability, yet how many of those same parents don't read to their children and at infancy don't begin to label things as simple as groceries. Don't anybody write to me and say "I read to my kid and he's one of the brightest in his class. Of course hie is, you did your job well and they love to be read to.

I agree with you both-It's hard to straighten out the tree when it's been growing bent for so long.

 

Again All thank you for your replies, you taught me something. And I like the Sienfeld banter proves you all have a sense of humor. Maybe we should make the 3 of them watch Elaine dance at the Christmas Party. Or search for the car in the parking garage while they watch their fish die.

[Bob White]

UZ2B,

A metaphor is a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money).

 

There was nothing metaphorical in the terms you used, they in fact epithets (a characterizing word or phrase accompanying or occurring in place of the name of a person or thing). It is a disparaging name, and is not related to a metaphor in any way.

 

I am curious, I reviewed your 39 posts and did not find a thread where I reponded to you in a negative way, could you please direct me to the post you refered to. I am curious to what I might have said to you regarding adult leadership that could possibly have been more discouteous than calling youth members such awful names.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

I love English lessons!

 

Lighten up folks! I though that was an ingenious way to describe a situation!

 

uz2bnowl,

How did the committee meeting go?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[theysawyoucomin']

Bob,

You're right. I used epithets.

Look back at the thread about the SPL going to committee meetings. Merely a question.

During the committee meeting I referred to them as a cancer on the Troop that should be removed if it continued.

 

 

For evmori,

The parents of the vulgar boys will be called. The bylaws for the Troop are from 197sumthin'. They will be updated. I really didn't know Troops had bylaws.

 

Next time it happens the parents of the blessed little cherubs with have to come and get their creations, no matter the time or distance.

[evmori]

uz2bnowl,

Sounds like things went well. Keep Scouting!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fuzzy Bear]

I want to address the use of metaphor and/or epithets for Scouts.

 

I also want to let you know that when I have been angry about certain behaviors that I have thought those words (or worse) in my head. A few experiences with Scouts took me right over the edge of my limits with my reaction to them, nothing physical or profane but my response was long-lasting for the Scout and myself. In every instance, it was because I had not anticipated the incident(s). We did not have a policy in place or the people that I worked with were unreliable with their support. I felt like I was alone without any idea of how to respond. When we did get the supports, what I found was that I was angry with my own lack of preparedness.

 

Even before these incidents, I had read in one of the older manuals, I do not know if it is in any of the new ones, not to call boys, boys. It was suggested to be careful to call them Scouts. This stuck in my head because of an earlier incident involving the use of a phrase I had used in a group. I had said that I didn't care if ... The response to my phrase was that I didn't care about them. That was not true so I quite using that phrase because I did and do care. I had learned that Scouts understand and are sensitive to the use of words and phrases, some Scouts much more than others.

 

Now, I also realize that in some parts of this country some are more direct with a term or a phrase. This makes it difficult to communicate this idea without misunderstanding or without stating all of the exceptions. Some Scouts know when a person cares in spite of word usage. Some Scouts observe your caring actions and don't even listen to your words. The real message is what is happening inside of you. Leadership preparedness reduces anxiety, fear, and anger. When this happens, the exceptional experiences that come from the vast majority of our Scouts begin to permeate and change our word/phrase choices. This in turn helps to change behaviors in Scouts that we might have thought otherwise.

 

FB

[Hunt]

My son is on a baseball team, and the coach uses lots of epithets--calls the boys names, questions their intellectual capacity, etc. He does it to all of them, including his own son, and it's generally pretty funny. He doesn't tease boys over real issues they have.

This doesn't bother me too much, and it doesn't seem to bother my son at all. However, I don't think it's the best way to do things. It takes away from the seriousness that the coach would like the boys to have toward the game. And there was one boy--who's now left the team--who did seem to take it personally, even though it wasn't directed at him any more than anyone else.

So I guess I want to echo FB and say that we should be even more careful about this in Scouts.

[theysawyoucomin']

fuzzy and hunt,

I am assuming you read the entire thread. The young men involved never heard me use the words that were typed. Bobwhite had a concern about how I described the boys on this forum.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Uz2,

 

I read your statement. I was speaking in general and not replying directly to what you said.

 

Many Scouts read what we write. I would like for them to understand that adult reactions and words are not always what they appear. Many times, as in own my case, has been a lack of preparedness. It was also anger against my own short-comings which is harder to acknowledge.

 

I hope my joining in did not interfere.

 

 

FB

[Cubmaster Mike]

Uzz-

 

Set the expectation. I start off the first Pack meeting of the year with a flip chart. Ask the boys what rules do they think we should follow. They come up with some pretty good ones and I suggest the others and they agree. I then explain that these are the rules and that discipine will increase from a warning all the way up to suspension.

 

And sometimes you have to act. Last week in the middle of our graduation ceremony for the Wolf den, wearing the ceremonial Akela headdress and breastplate, I had to stop the ceremony, walk over to the Bear den and ask a parent to come sit between a group of boys who would not stop messing around and talking (it was loud enough that it distracted me from the ceremony while my back was turned). There were a half dozen parents sitting behind the boys while this was happening and not one stopped it on their own (each ceremony took about 5-10 minutes and the Bear den was next)

 

I attribute a lot of it to our culture- a sort of "don't you DARE talk to my sweet Johnny like that!" mentality, and a general tune out on the part of the parents to the behavior of others.

 

The parents were probably absorbed in the ceremony (which was really cool) and had tuned out the bad behavior. I also see HUGE amount of parents who will not discipline someone else's child. I'm not talking corporal punishment here, but the ability to stand-up and say "hey, behave yourself" to a group of scouts or siblings. They know what needs to be done, they are just not willing to do it. Heck, when I'm up front doing my CM thing at Pack meetings, I expect someone to help keep an eye on my kids.

 

I see it in the grocery store- standing behind the mother who tells her child that he can't have the candy or balloon or toy on the display shelf. The child screams, crys and hits the mother and then tries to hold onto the object anyway. The parent will not discipline the child. When did it become okay to strike out at others like that? I use commands sparingly but when I give it, I expect obedience. I train hunting dogs and if you give a command, the dog had better respond, and if it doesn't, then you better be prepared to discipline IMMEDIATELY or the dog will know that it's okay not to listen. The same reaction can be expected from a child.

 

That may sound a little harsh, comparing hunting dogs to children, but it doesn't hurt the dog's feelings and you should see my kids retrieve....

 

Keep at it Uzz, we've been getting a number of transfers from other units recently, and the common thread is "you should have seen our last pack, there was no discipline at all...."

 

[Lynda J]

Had a boy in our Web den that had a mouth on him like a sewer. After we moved up into the troop even with many talks about language it didn't help

At a Camporee he told one of the other leaders to F off. That was the last straw. It had gotten to the point that other parents told us that if he was going on any activity that their son would not be going. Hardest thing I ever had to do was remove this boy from the troop. But a very wise Scouter (65 years as a registered adult scout) ask me this. "How much better program would you be able to give the other 18 boys if you weren't having to spend so much time dealing with problems with this one boy?" I had to admit a lot. At a point the good of the many outweighs the one.

I am a firm believer that foul language is the sign of a lazy mind.