"You seem to not have any written rules"

[Bob White]

I have not seen where anyone has said not to share BSA policies, what has been stressed is that there is no need manufacture additional ones. Rarely are these manufactured rules not in conflict with the BSA rules already in existance.

 

Likewise no one has suggested that you not share information such as meeting nights and times etc. Those are not rules or by-laws its simply information. What is being stressed is that the BSA come pre-packeaged with all the rules you need to deliver a safe and effective program, use those rather than add to them.

 

BW

[Eamonn]

Hunt,

I did state in my original posting:

There is a difference between information and rules and bylaws.

The where and when of Troop meetings is not a rule or a bylaw.

Some time back someone posted a link to the tome that was the rule book of the troop in which they served. It contained a mix of BSA policy and made up rules that were far from anything I have ever seen in any BSA publication.

I always found that meeting with parents face to face in the home of the Scout worked better that a lot of rules. We backed this up with a monthly Newsletter.

Things like what to wear to what were covered. If we were going rock climbing, there was no need for a uniform, if we were working in the public eye we asked those that had a uniform to wear it.

The old Boy Scout Wood Badge stressed 1.Communicating

2. Knowing and Using Resources

3. Understanding the Characteristics and Needs of the Group and Its Members

4. Planning

5. Controlling Group Performance

6. Effective Teaching

7. Representing the Group

8. Evaluating

9. Sharing Leadership

10. Counseling

11. Setting the Example

This is a mighty fine list, if a Scouter were to learn and use these skills, I think that there would be a lot less of the these bylaws.

Eamonn.

 

[schleining]

Rules. In our Troop we have 12 of them...

I am sure you can all guess what they are, Starts with Trustworthy...

Those 12 pretty much touch everything that we could need.

 

We have a set of By Laws also, in them we discuss the cleaning of our meeting place for the Chartered Org., we cover dues for the year, we cover the additional items our CO has in place for the Troop, which include reporting, permits, insurance etc.

But no rules.

 

What I have learned in my short time as a Scout leader is that the more rules you throw at them, the less they remember.

They all need to know the Scout Law, simple enough.

 

Jerry

[evmori]

Just read this entire thread. I was on vacation & just got back.

 

It appears the "non-rule" crowd assumes (bad thing to do) everything that could or would happen in Scouting is covered by the Oath & Law. It appears the "rule" crowd feels there are areas not covered by the Oath & Law & therefore rules, bylaws, guidelines, etc. need to be written down. I can see where both sides have valid points.

 

The Oath & Law cover 90% of what could & would happen in Scouting. No research done to get to that number, just my thoughts. The other 10% (meeting times, when money is due for camping trips, etc.) is not covered by the Oath & Law & Troop rules, bylaws, regulations, guidelines (call them what you like) are very helpful for keeping everyone on the same page. Doesn't each summer camp issue a list of do's & don'ts or bring & do not bring lists?

 

Troop guidelines (which is what I will call them) don't need to deal with what is covered in the Oath & Law. Troop guidelines need to deal with what isn't covered.

 

And since we are not allowed to punish Scouts, isn't sending them home for any reason punishment? A consequence yes but also punishment? And isn't punishment a consequence?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

"And since we are not allowed to punish Scouts, isn't sending them home for any reason punishment? A consequence yes but also punishment? And isn't punishment a consequence?"

 

It's really a moot point, because this is what BSA tells us to do if the circumstances warrant. So either it isn't punishment, or BSA allows adults to perform this particular method of punishment. Certainly, a Scout will experience it as punishment, but that doesn't justify other kinds of punishment--those, BSA tells us are not our responsibility.

[johndaigler]

I hate to jump in at the last minute (and after reading 4 pages, I hope we are nearing the last minute!!) but I have some questions. (I had some witty comments, but at this point I think they would just come off as stirring the pot, so I'll stick to my questions!)

 

Semantics aside, is the problem with "rules" that they have specific consequences, or perhaps their inconsistency with the Oath and Law? Are you guys comfortable with guidelines that are developed to clarify situational adherence of the Oath and Law? How about examples that help Cubs and younger Scouts learn and internalize the Law and Oath? Enforced "recommendations" that help ensure safety and success for participants?

 

The Cub Promise and Law of the Pack are both simpler, and more complicated, for young boys to learn, understand and execute. I'm thinking that, as learning tools, things that some of you might call "rules", are quite useful.

 

Thus, the following paragraph in the CS Leader Book (chapter 16):

 

Positive behavior can be achieved by using many of the tools provided by Cub Scouting, such as

-Expressing clear expectations of good behavior to the boy and his family

-Developing a den code of conduct with the boys . . .

 

(This section goes on for over two pages giving many fine examples of techniques for "Youth Member Behavior Guidelines", "Den Discipline, "Guidance Using Values", "Solutions to Problems")

 

 

 

Also, there are BSA policies that are important, but not well publicized to Scouts and Parents. I hope we're comfortable sharing BSA regs and "rules" - assuming that the individual Unit doesn't alter them.

 

?

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[Bob White]

You only need to read the first post in the thread to get the answer to every question you asked John.

 

No one has suggested that rules were not needed. What we have said is that the rules that are needed already exist and are available in the resources of the BSA. You need only use the rules and tools already in the program. There is not need to manufacture more.

 

BW

[evmori]

How does the Scout Oath & Law address meeting times, duty rosters, when the money is due for the camping trip, etc.? They don't. These are the type of things units need to have in writing as rules, guidelines, laws, regulations, whatever you want to call them.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10