Is this as common as I think it is?

[LPC_Thumper]

I saw this a lot a while ago... Have to admit when I was a scoutmaster most of my troop was under this program. Since I have a white square knot, you can draw your own conclusions (this worked several times). Then in California the laws regarding when teenagers can have others in their cars changed, and changed the way kids (both boys and girls) looked at their licenses. Now the carrot doesn't hold the claim to "freedom" it once did.

 

My son a fourth generation Eagle Scout knew that we (his parents) would help with his car, as soon as he couldn't be distracted from finishing his Eagle by what are natural, normal, appropriate reactions of driving. You say that to hold this out is a way to "force scouts out," well let's see... he's an ASM, has sat on Eagle Boards, is a Merit Badge Counselor, has two palms, loves his car... and in his spare time is the perfect young man (just ask his dad) Just another example to muddy the picture...

[ScoutNerd]

Well, Eagledad, after much deep thought this is what I can tell you. As senior in college, life often feels like it's been put on hold, so I haven't really run into extremely excellent examples of how being an Eagle changes things on the visible level. The only job I've officially had that required a resume was (and still is) scout camp staff. The only benefit that probably got me was a pay raise of a few dollars a week, but I really am not sure. (Any other Eagles reading this, feel free to add stuff in on this, because my experience is rather limited.)

Truthfully, sometimes I have to let the idea sink in all over again that I've done something above average in that respect. (Thinking about your question was actually one of those times, so thank you :-D)

The thing I have noticed the most, and really enjoy about being an Eagle scout is that you can meet strangers and find out they are an Eagle as well, and immediately you feel like brothers (even though you may know nothing else about one another). My Technical writing teacher said that the classic "employers consider Eagle scouts more" is not so much anymore... but I really didn't believe him, it's still on the top of my resume (actually a few lines down from the top) :-D

To get more informed about this, we should pull in other eagles that might be reading this, I'd like to hear their stories too.

I hope this helps, and maybe sparks a few fun stories from the elder eagles in our little quorum.

-Curtis :-D

but for the rest of the story... Phillipian 3:8-9 :-D

[Eamonn]

As the Father of the Scout who must hold the world record for being Life Scout, the longest!!

If OJ ever decides to do what is needed to complete his Eagle the decision will be his. At present he has his driving permit and is talking about taking his test. I will help and support him reach any goal he sets.

I'm not going to give him a car.

I'm not going to make a call and set up a project for him.

The goals have to be his.

Him not passing his test a couple of times isn't going to be the end of the world.

If he never makes Eagle Scout will not take anything away from the things he has done the friends he has made and the lessons he has learned.

Yes sure Her That Must Be Obeyed will remind him that his uncle is an Eagle Scout and I will remind him that I made it to Queens Scout, but that might be the price he pays for not making it!! Unfair? Maybe. Unkind? Slightly. But life isn't always kind or fair.

Eamonn.

[ScoutNerd]

Well, thinking more about that question from Eagledad... (wow, that was a good question... have I mentioned that lately? :-D)

I don't think I would be any different had I not become an Eagle Scout... had I barely not made it. (Don't yell at me quite yet) Talking with an Eagle brother of mine here at school helped me pin point it. having the award of Eagle scout did not make me the young man I am today. The experiences leading up to it, did, of course. But had I stopped right before my project when I was 17 1/2, I think I would turned out just about the same. I would have the same work ethic, the same character, the same sense for responsibilities. that being said...

I am extremely glad I got my Eagle scout, because it is official proof of what kind of person I am. The actual finishing did one extra thing for my charcter, however. It taught me how to finish something really impacting, and that's what I have the right to be proud of. The fact that I finished one of the toughest, and most drawn out things I've done in my entire life is now signified by the plack on the wall, the card in my wallet.

So if your son doesn't want to finish eagle scout, don't force him, it needs to be his job, his goal to finish (as many of you have been saying). It might be a regret later in life, but the experience is the biggest thing that changes the young man, not the award. The award is definetly a great symbol of the type of man, but it's not the defining characteristic, rather, the men that have gotten eagle until now define the honor that the rank still holds.

O sifuni mungu :-D

-Curtis

Phillipians 3:8-9 (a great description to the other side of my thinking on this subject :-D)

[Bob White]

I think there are adults who understand how to use positive reinforcements and adults who do not. I have seen far more leaders 'encourage' scouts inappropriately than I have parents.

 

BW

[scoutldr]

The most important lesson we can teach young people is that they have to live with the natural consequences of their own choices. Whether it's the young 11 yo tenderfoot who forgets to bring the can opener on the campout, or the 17 yr 10 month old Eagle candidate who can't quite find the time to get that last merit badge done.

 

>>now that we've finished growing up

[Eagledad]

Great answers Curtis. Sounds like the program did what is was supposed to do, and you did what your were supposed to do. Looking back on it, I know that scouting help me be a better man, husband and father. Oh and a better scout leader. I don't have the Eagle to show for it like you, only my intergrity. I think the difference between you and I have nothing to prove myself at the begining. Your Eagle has already given you the start.

 

Hey thanks for the thoughtful answers, they were really good.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[dsteele]

I have been giving Eagledad's question and Scoutnerd's response a lot of thought.

 

I don't have a clear answer as to what I've gained by being an Eagle Scout, but I can tell you what I probably would not have. Perhaps coming at it this way will help.

 

1) My parents could not afford to give me a college education, not even with loans. I had a choice, not go to college, work my way to and through college, or earn a full academic or atheletic scholarship.

 

I waned to go to college. Option one was out. I could have stayed home, enjoyed a tuition break because my Grandfather worked for the local university as a professor, and taken 8 or more years to graduate. I was not a great student -- 3.0 average. Academic scholarship wasn't going to happen. As to an atheltic scholarship, well, let's just say that I do have a varsity letter from high school . . . in forensic speech!

 

However, because I was an Eagle Scout and had been a leader in the Scouting arena, I got a full tuition scholarship for four years to a private college. Do I think that would have happened if I were not an Eagle Scout? Probably not.

 

As a result of that Scholarship, I was able to do many things and travel to many places while in college that few other students get to do . . . including visit many dignitaries and famous people.

 

After graduation, Eagle Scout weighed heavily on my resume and my job choice . . . as well as my hiring. It's possible I would have been hired if I weren't an Eagle Scout, even probable, but trust me when I say it made a difference.

 

If I weren't an Eagle Scout, I wouldn't have felt compelled to accept a camp job in the summer of 1990. If I had not accepted that job, I never would have met my beloved wife of 13 years. The only circle she and I had in common before we met was Scouting -- hers was Girl Scouting, but she wanted to work at a Boy Scout camp.

 

Also, there are the values instilled in me -- the true mission of the BSA. I have them in spades whether I want to or not. Yes, they are ingrained to an extent in all of us . . . but if you truly pay attention to what an Eagle Scout agrees to during his Eagle Court of Honor, you'll find words that drive the point home like nothing else I've ever seen.

 

You're familiar with the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Do you realize that phrases like these are used to indoctrinate young Eagle Scouts during the court of honor:

 

"You are a marked man."

I can't quote it, but there is verbiage in most Eagle Courts of honor that the candidate agrees to that obligate him to lead others, give back what was given to him, wear the badge as a sacred honor, etc.

 

Eagle Scout is different than any other rank or experience. It can not be taken away (not the knowledge and the internal part, actually, any part.) It can not be returned -- you still are who you are and know what you know. A few years ago some actually tried to send their medals back, not understanding that the medal is a symbol for what actually IS. Knowledge and values can not be taken away, they can only be shared or forsaken.

 

If you're an Eagle Scout and you wonder what being an Eagle actually did for you, just imagine your life without it. Heck, if you were ever a Scout, imagine what life would have been like if you hadn't had the experience.

 

For me, that just drives home the value.

 

Think I'll hug my wife extra hard tonight.

 

Unc.

[OldGreyEagle]

And a PS to that is that Unc earned his Eagle at a relativley young age, 13-14 I believe, I guess sometimes younger scouts can earn it and appreciate it. ::snappy scout salute to Unc::

[mdutch]

Is there something ironic about me reading this topic when, in reality, I should be working on the Emergency Prepardnece merit badge, so that I can get to eagle?

 

Eric

957 Days left to get eagle

[dsteele]

Eric:

 

Get cracking young man! 947 days, or whatever, isn't a time specification. It's a limit.

 

Go ahead and have done with it. I'm a big believer in getting the job done.

 

Become an Eagle Scout. Trust me, it will shape you into more than you've ever dreamed you can become. I have to ask your faith on that one. Until you're an Eagle, you can't fully understand.

 

OGE was correct. I passed my Eagle board of review when I was 13 years and 10 months old. In spite of what some may say about young eagles, it does sink in. Sometimes very, very deeply.

 

I return OGE's snappy scout salute and deeply appreciate it.

 

Unc.

[Cutter]

I think this is a fairly common practice around where I live. I am doing a version of it with my son that lacks one required merit badge and is 16. He has the project done. I've not seen it to be very effective in getting him going but I think he will eventurally finish. He has enough merit badges but needs physical fitness. We live about 2 blocks from the high school and within walking distance to shopping, etc. so he does not need to drive. I occassionally ask him how it is going and he always says "I'm working on it" but I've been hearing this for over a year so I don't think much is happening. He has a car waiting for him to finish. I should note that his sister didn't really drive until she was about 19. So I don't think it a big incentive for him. Also, it saves me on insurance if he only has a learners permit so I'm not pushing too hard. The pressure of being a third generation Eagle and the fourth in the family might be more incentive. I didn't get mine until I was 17 so I can't say too much.

[isvirtual]

I am the Eagle Advisor for our Troop. At this point in time, I have 27 Life scouts who are 6 steps away from becoming Eagles. For various reasons, most of them are dragging their feet. Some because their parents dont believe in younger Eagles. Some because they are looking for the easiest path. Some because they have many extracurricular activites.

 

I have one scout who suddenly reintroduced himself to our troop and the Eagle process. He finished his project proposal, got it signed, worked his project, and is not writing up the results. He had already completed the required merit badges, time, and leadership positions. I complemented him on his sudden burst of energy and he told me his Dad wouldn't let him drive until he copleted his Eagle rank. I asked him how he felt about that. His reply. I should have listened to Dad a long time ago. He wasn't bitter. He wasn't angry. I think he really appreciates his Dad's position and respects him for not giving in.

 

I've watched this boy take incredible initiative and recognize astounding results becuase his parents were firm. I asked him if he was impressed with what he can accomplish with proper motivation. He smiled as he realized what he did in a short time to complete this badge. He and the rest of us are very proud of his on the job training.

 

My own son is an Eagle so I asked him his opinion about the "wheels for wings" approach. He said it was a great idea as long as the parents made it clear at an early age this was expected. He did not feel it a good idea for them to wait until he was eligible to drive before mentioning the expectation.

 

Those of us who recognize the value in the Eagle badge and who want the best for our children should remove obstacles and motivate them to earn this. Since there is a definite time limit, there is no option to do it later. If there were... I too would become an Eagle scout.

 

[Eagledad]

I guess for me, if I as a Scoutmaster I developed the troop to make Eagles, I would have failed all my scouts. I developed our troop to make men of character and integrity. I feel if boy scoutng had started with Eagles in mind, we wouldn't have scouting today. For me, the Eagle is a rank for three percent extra acheivers. Those who wanted, no who needed to go the extra step.

 

But you see, some boys don't have that long to get eagle, some earned the equal honor in other parts or their life. I worked toward a program where all our scouts were expected to be held to the Scout Law and Oath in their future, not just the Eagles. And yes, I have had people in my adult like tell me they expected more from me because I was a boy scout.

 

I also believe we live in a tough time. While parents have always expected a lot from their children, we live in a time where parents are becoming problems in sports, school, and even scouts. My son just did a paper on this at Oklahoma State. He said his research scared him. The parents of our culture are starting to strive for their success through their children.

 

Please don't misunderstand, I don't want to take anything away from the eagle at all, God has more than bless our program with them. But if the eagle scout is to maintain the honor in the community that it has held in the past, we are going to have to get back to honoring the boy scout. We cannot allow the Eagle to replace what was expected of the First Class scout in the past. Remember the image of the scout helping a little old lady across the street? We do not want the image to be replaced with the little old lady first asking if that scout was an Eagle. The Eagle is held in high honor today only because of the high expectation and honor of the Boy Scout yesterday.

 

Build all the scouts to be live by the scout oath and law, and the Eagle will alway fly high.

 

This subject makes me want to tell a story of two men. One is my dad. He was a scout during WWII. There wasn't enough men around to be Scoutmaster, so at age fourteen his troop asked him to be the Scoutmaster. They worked out a way for his grandpa to sign any paper work that required an adult signiture, but dad was the Scoutmaster for two years. Because he was so busy doing that, he didn't get the Eagle like his big brother. He has never regretted the choice.

 

My other friend is a man who had the same kind of situation in a small town in Oklahoma during the 60's. He was also a Scoutmaster at age 14. He got his Eagle and when I asked how, he said several adults worked with him while he staffed at summer camp. Both these men are heros to me. Both represent what I hope is in all my scouts. What I pray for in my sons.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[Lynda J]

Well here in Texas we won't have to worry about this if a bill in the House passes this year. It sets a standard that anyone born after 1990 can not get a DL until they are 18, unless there are very special exceptions. I don't know what those are. But it is all the talk with our boys right now.