How to deal with unruly Cubs

[Sylvar]

I have a large wolf den. 13 boys. Most are well behaved with the normal boy rambuncousness. I have 3 that make things very difficult. One is LD/DH and he honestly wants to be good, but he has trouble controlling his impulses. One is a class clown, with a "Look at me" mentality and a tendency to shreik. The third is very bright and very mischievous with a "me first" attitude and a real bad habit of doing the wrong thing because its wrong.

 

The first one I can deal with , but the other 2 I am having trouble with. I am at my wits end. Last year we split them into separate dens, but we lost our other DL and had to merge them this year.

 

How does one reach boys like this? Especially with no meaningful help from the parents?

 

I am open to all suggestions!

 

Thanks

 

Shane

 

[Eagle1973]

I had my den come up w/ their own rules. That way they had some pride in ownership. Then, I had them come w/ with the consequences to violating their rules. All guided be me, of course.

 

One of the consequences after a few violations was for the parent to come get their kid.

 

I was lucky to never to have called a parent to pick up their Scout. But, if you have to, repeatedly, then I'd get the CM and CC involved.

[fotoscout]

The problem with these behaviors is that they are disruptive and contiguous. You only have one hour (or so) to conduct your meeting. If it takes longer because of disruptions, you will inevitably lose the attention of all the boys.

 

This is a perfect opportunity for you to show the parents that you understand the Cub Scout Program. First, explain to them the Den is larger than it should be. Because it is larger, behavior becomes a more critical issue with respect to your ability to Bring the Program to the boys. Second, explain to the parent that Little Johnny is just too much for you to control, you need help with him if this is going to work for all the boys. As the DL you have to be concerned with your ability to bring a good and meaningful program to all the boys! Therefore, Mr. Little Johnny, you will have to work with me by being at your childs side throughout each meeting. When he acts out, I would like you to either calm him quickly or take him out of the room for few minutes. My apologies, but it just isnt going to work if we dont work together to make some constructive changes. I want this to be a positive experience for everyone, including your Little Johnny and it wont be positive for Little Johnny if I am constantly focusing attention on him and his behaviors.

 

You could even ask those parents to become Assistant Den Leaders. You will need to do this with privately with each parent.

 

Of course you could go the other direction, and tell them that too many of the boys need extra time and that you just cant do justice to the program with the current arrangement. A second Den must be formed, otherwise you will choose the boys that you wish to continue with, and recommend the others to a different Pack. Yes, I knowthis is a radical response.

 

In a smaller group its easier to deal with the behaviors, but unfortunately as the den gets larger, the problems are magnified. Remember, we are neither experts nor professionals in this area. Youre a working stiff, or stay home mom trying to do the best you can. Scouting should be fun for you too!

 

[SemperParatus]

Fotoscout offers good suggestions. However, sometimes the parent's attendance does not help the situation. I have worked with many parents that do not see the same flaws in their childrens' behavior that others see. You may see a child acting up and misbehaving, but the parent may see a charming boy with enthusiasm and humor. Typically, the apple does not fall far from the tree. Sometimes, the parents will get in a snoot when you discipline their child over behavior that they find perfectly acceptable and allow to occur at home all the time. It sounds like the two are just craving attention. Ignore the bad behavior completely and lavishly praise their good behavior and they will eventually come around, at least for the hour a week that they spend with you. Good luck.

[CubsRgr8]

13 wolf scouts?!?!?! It won't get any easier when they're bears or webelos! This really needs to be two dens and it's not your role to make it happen. Go to the Cubmaster and Committee Chair and and ask them to recruit another den leader. Since you've been working with these families, you can recommend which parents they should approach. Sorry to be doom and gloom, but you risk burning yourself out if you continue down this path.

[kenk]

I agree wholeheartedly about the split. It won't be popular, but it is for the best. My Webelos 1 den has six boys right now and it is soooo much easier than it was even with eight boys. If the dens' sizes dwindle later, the two can always rejoin together.

 

Also, I borrowed an idea we used when I was a boy in Indian Guides. They had a "talking stick" and, during discussion times, the rule was you couldn't talk unless you had the talking stick. Now, with young boys I don't recommend they hold a large stick. When my boys were Tiger Cubs I got a small tiger beany baby type stuffed animal and told them they couldn't talk unless they had the "Talking Tiger". They enjoyed tossing it from boy to boy as each participated. You could do the same thing with your den too.

 

To clafify, this was only during sit-down-type discussion/presentation times. When they were working on projects or other activities, they were simply encouraged not to scream and run around too much. I found a buzy boy tends to be a quieter boy.

[EagleInKY]

Split the den! Do it now, or you won't have a size problem. 1/2 of them will quit because of the behavior. And, to top it off, it won't be the bad ones that quit.

 

I also agree with the idea of having them set their rules. We did this the first den meeting of the year. We wrote them on a sheet of paper and displayed them in the room. We referred back to it when we needed to.

 

But first, split the den. If you end up getting too small, you can always "merge" for Webelos. (Kind of like Survivor, but without all that immunity challenge stuff).

[Sylvar]

Oh how I wish 2 wolf dens was possible, But its this way at every rank. Bears have 11 in one den (but 2 leaders), Webelos have 14 in one den with one leader. Tigers - 12 (but 2 leaders).

 

Encouraging more adults to volunteer it a whole different thread!

 

I won't kick them out. That goes against my core scouting beliefs. Those 2 boys need the direction and guidance that scouting can offer more than the rest combined.

 

I like the idea of having the boy come up with rules/consequences. Do you have any more examples of what they came up with?

 

With both these boys I make a point of praising good behaviour and telling them how much I appreciate it. But that doesn't seem to be enough and honestly I don't get to do it very often. The bad behaviour is so bad that it cannot go ignored.

 

 

I agree that parent attendance doesn't always help. There are times I wish the parents were not there. Class Clown's Mom is always there, and she trys to control him and is honestly embarrassed by his behaviour. However, Her methods are not effective and frankly she issues to many threats that she doesn't follow through on. "Me first" is a different story. I have seen him behave. He CAN do it. And he does a better job of it when his mom is present, but she has a Webelo and our WL requires parent attendance. (I will be bringing this up at the next committee meeting.)

 

I have never tried the talking stick idea, but I have read about it. Is it really that effective?

 

I am concidering mailing out a note to all scouts parents about behaviour problems we are having in the meetings. I would ask that they all talk to their sons about showing respect for others at the meeting and make good choices while there.

 

Thanks for all the good input! Keep it coming!

 

Shane

 

 

[SemperParatus]

I was pretty much in the same situation, large den with a couple of behavior problems. In the end, you can only do so much to influence their behavior when you have them for only an hour or so a week. We did the self-made den rule thing but it petered out after a couple of months as we all got tired of reviewing the same rules and infractions again and again. The consequences could not be made too severe and so it really had very little bite. I to tried a talking feather, but again it just didn't last. I am sure others have had more success, it just didn't work for our den.

 

In the end, it was a matter of adjusting my attitude and realizing that the den would never look like those pictures you see in all the scouting literature. Just like your own kid, choose the battles that matter and let the rest go.

 

I have had some success in playing to their strengths, for example:

 

For Class Clown - give him a couple of minutes at the beginning of each den meeting to 'be on stage' and loosen up the crowd with his funniness. It may be that he expends his energies and uses up his 'good material' in a constructive way and he has nothing left for the rest of the meeting.

 

For Me First - who is very smart, but me first with tendency to purposely do bad things. Make him your special helper (just between you and him) because he is so smart.

 

 

[fotoscout]

Be careful about mailing a note to all the parents. Praise in public, reprimand in private. You don't want to highlight the behavioral problems of a few to all the parents. You certainly wouldn't want your own childs shortcomings broadcast throughout the community. Give the parent the oppurtunity to work with his son. Trust that the parent will conduct himself properly and direct the boy accordingly. Maybe you can help the parent grow up as well.

 

Splitting the den is of course the best solution, but that is not always possible. No one wants to see the boys asked to leave the den, BUT, you have 12 other boys (and families) that are looking for you to conduct a worthwhile program. How often is the Promise of Scouting and the expectations of parents diminished because WE failed to do the right thing or make the hard decision that is truly in the interest of everyone.

 

I am finding more and more that the problems we end up with are the result of our desire to always be the nice guy. We have become so enamored with serving everyone that often we end up serving no one. Sometimes our well intentioned decisions end up creating larger problems downstream.

 

[Its Me]

Most parents won't come out and say "I will be an assistant den leader" so they must be drafted. Such that, any parent that hangs around the meeting can be drafted. Typically they will be glad to assist as long as they aren't the ones responsible for the whole shabang.

 

Draft them by saying things like, "Mr Johnson can you ride shotgun over these four boys and make sure they complete their assignment?" "Mr Brown can you take those four?" This is better than having each individual parent supervise their own child.

[EagleInKY]

Behavior or "Scout Spirit" candle is another idea. Light it at the beginning of the meeting. Blow it out when they misbehave. Give them a prize (pizza party, etc.) when it burns it's way down.

 

I've seen splitting the den into two groups - one Den Leader and two assistants. You actually need to find a way to split them in the meeting though. Either in a different room at the church (if that's where you meet), or meet on a different night (doubles your nights).

[Eagledad]

Boy, lots of great ideas out there. You are right to fix this now because you are expected to carry these guys for another three years.

 

Try all these ideas because how well they work depends on your personality. One of them may work.

 

I see your other mom as a problem. I had kind of the same problem in my den and I eventally had to approach him. Since I was the leader, he was very willing to follow my suggestions. In this case, I suggested he make an aggreement with his son that he would not be his son's father during the meeting, allowing me to work with his son. It worked very well because his son knew I wouldn't put up with his behavoir.

 

For the rest of the guys (I had 16), we divided up our meeting into two activities. We all met together at the start and finish of the meeting. But for the rest of the meeting, I had two activities planned so that we could divide the group into two, and also keep their interest by changing the activities. Then I made sure they had game time. I like the idea of the talking stick. I used to do this with a football for story telling at campfires.

 

Barry

 

 

[Eagle1973]

Sylvar, We limited the number of rules to just a few. They were the usual ones, hands to yourself, raise hand in order to speak, etc., etc.

 

Consequences were also just a few, asked to pay attention/be quiet or whatever (first warning), a time out away from view of Cubs while in view of leader, call to the parent.

 

Or something like that.

 

There were lots of other great ideas listed.

 

YIS