Quality Leadership

[Eamonn]

I thought that it might be an idea to look at Quality Leadership. In the other thread it seemed to me that many of those who posted (Me included) thought that Quality Leadership can overcome many if not most of the hurdles that are already in place or may pop up. These hurdles or obstacles can be there because of the socioeconomic nature of a area. It seemed to me that somehow the discussion became focused on areas that were poor and children that came from poor or financially challenged families.

I don't know why but I can't help thinking about the Gilbert and Sullivan. On one hand there is " A policeman's lot is not a happy one" On the other hand there is "I am the perfect model of a Modern Major General" Just add the word Scouter in place of Policeman and Major General.

I do think it is worth noting that nearly all Leaders face some sort of problem. I happen to live in an area where it seems everyone has their own pet organization and when asked to become involved with the BSA, say that they are busy with whatever their organization is. Children of wealthy parents might have more opportunities to do more activities and not have time for Scouts and Scouting, the same might be said of their parents.

Some hard facts that some leaders have a hard time coming to grips with:

You are not super-human.

None of us are. Trying to do too much is a very dumb thing to do. Find out what your skills are and what you like doing and do it well.

Her That Must Be Obeyed, doesn't like kids. Send a Den of Cub Scouts to the house and leave them there for 90 minutes and I don't know what would happen. She dislikes crafts and that sort of thing. There were times when I was Cubmaster when we needed help with the Dens. She was free but she knew that she would hate it.She became the Pack Treasurer and was wonderful at it.

Scouting is for Boy's.

Our job as Scout Leaders is to provide a Scouting Program for the youth in the program. We are not out to save the world or the families of the Scouts. We need to read and re-read the Vision and Mission statements along with other material from the BSA and focus on what we are supposed to be doing.

Training Never Ends.

Sure you have taken all the courses. You have worked your Ticket. But whatever happens don't stop.

A few things that a Quality Leader needs to remember.

Check your Resources.

When I first attended Wood Badge back in England I swore if I ever heard "Check your resources one more time, that I would be sick. Resources are all around us. We need to open to them. Parents can be a wonderful resource. People who belong to the Chartered Organization and other Organizations are resources. In another thread someone mentioned that stores have helped them out with craft supplies.

Take or Make Time to See where you want to go. Set long term plans and short term plans. Set Goals/ steps that will lead you to your goal. Write them down. Share them with others. Every now and then take time to reflect how things are going.

Communicate, Communicate, Communicate!!

The list could go on but this is a start. Please add your feelings or what you think makes for Quality Leadership.

Eamonn

 

[Bob White]

My perspective on the difference between a scout leader and a quality scout leader is the difference between a horse, and somebody who is dressed up like a horse.

 

Signing the application and going to the meetings makes you a scout leader, but only superficially. A quality leader takes time to learn the program, time to understand it's methods, aims, and mission. And then spends time applying those skills.

 

BW

[SR540Beaver]

We all know the old joke about how a man will drive around lost for hours before he will pull over and ask for directions. I've seen that happen in scouting too. Our SM is our District Trainer. He says his worst students are Eagle Scouts. They seem to think they know it all. He himself is an Eagle Scout. His view is that yes, they know a lot about scouting from a 2o year old boy's view. That does not automatically translate into knowing current adult training and BSA policy today. When I attended the SM Specific training, we had a guy there who admitted that the only reason he was taking the course was because he was selected to attend the Jamboree as an adult leader and he was required to have the training. His feeling was that he had been doing this for years and they had nothing they could teach him. He actually brought work in a briefcase that he kept looking at throughout the meeting. When I took the IOLS class, same thing. Many of the SM's were grumbling about having done this for years and didn't see the point. These were the guys wearing jeans with their uniform shirts. When someone came to the course to recruit for Wood Badge, they rolled their eyes, shuffled around and stared at the ground. Wood Badge? We don't need no stinkin' Wood Badge. I was flabberghasted! What makes these guys think they know so much? Because they've been doing it for years? What if they've been doing it wrong for years? As an old baseball coach told me once, "practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent". Practice wrong and you'll always do it wrong. Good baseball is all about fundamentals. So is Scouting. Learn, practice, learn, practice. There is always something new to learn. Leadership is developed, not bestowed. Quality units come from quality leadership. Trained leadership. Leadership with an open mind that is always willing to learn more, adapt and apply. When we think we know it all and have it all figured out, we are going to provide a pretty static and dull program. Why bother if we are just going to phone it in?

[Eamonn]

My experiences with Leaders who have taken Training's is a little different. Most of those who attend get a Scouting "High". Comments like

'Gee this works!!" and " I want to try this" are often heard.

The sad thing is that when they get back to the home unit, they are never given the chance to put the new ideas and methods that have only been around for about 100 years to work or for some reason they just don't put it into practice.

The other week I was up at camp for an OA weekend. They had managed to get a Dunk Tank. Which in a fit of mindlessness I allowed my self to be the dunkee!! (They were raising money for Conclave.) The tank was set up whee we had done some of the pioneering projects on the old Wood Badge course. The course was held in 1999. As I dried off, after having been dunked a few times. A Scoutmaster who had been a participant on the course came over and started to reminisce. He said how much fun he'd had and what a great time it was. When I asked if he had done it with the troop. He smiled and said "No" When I asked why? He didn't have an answer.

Attending the training's is great. But attending the trainings and putting what you have learned to work is so much better.

Eamonn

[johndaigler]

"My perspective on the difference between a scout leader and a quality scout leader is the difference between a horse, and somebody who is dressed up like a horse."

 

 

This, BW, is why you create angst in your readers and lower your value as a teacher.

 

 

You could have said the difference between a horse "and a pony"(similar just a little tinier, not quite as capable of doing those "Horse-ish" kinds of things), or a horse "and a thoroughbred" (similar, but has a QUALITY bloodline, probably well-trained) or a horse "and a zebra" (similar, but a little wild, untrained and rough around the edges).

 

But, Noooooooo, you had to go and make the other end of your comparison into a fraud, a creature masquerading as something they obviously are not, AND CAN NEVER BE.

 

Is there a way for you to set the font on your computer to somethin like 50% graytone?? Even 75%???

 

Just a reminder, being right is NOT enough!! You've got that mastered, now what are you gonna learn?

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[Bob White]

johndaigler,

 

Eamonn asked for our personal feelings or feelings as what makes for quality leadership as opposed to just a leader. I shared my opinion. Disagree with my opinion if you wish but I do not see how that gives you the right to attack me personally.

 

As others have pointed out there are leaders who basically "phone it in", others who take the training but never take the time to learn what was shared with them, and never practice or apply it. They wear the uniform, they dress the part.

 

The quality leaders I have seen and know, and by the way they outnumber the others, don't just dress like leaders...they lead. This isn't a condemnation of volunteers trying to do their best it is a condemnation of those who don't.

 

Will this opinion strike some very personally? Maybe it will. Maybe enough to get them to take and use the available training. Maybe it will upset them enough to do their job or make room for someone who will.

 

Either way the boys win, and isn't that the goal?

 

Happy Scouting

Bob White

 

 

[Hunt]

Well, for what it's worth, Bob, I found your comparison between a horse and a person dressed up as a horse somewhat offensive as well. It seemed a bit unkind. Maybe I didn't really understand what you meant by it.

 

I can understand that you object to people who know what the program is and choose not to deliver it. Maybe that's what you really mean by a person dressed up as a horse.

 

But there are a lot of leaders who are still learning how to do it, who are juggling lots of other responsibilities, and are really trying to do the very best they can with the time and resources they have. If you think people like that are "dressed up as horses," I can't agree. Those people need encouragement, not criticism.

 

To put it concretely, there's a big difference between somebody who says, "We don't have full uniforming in our troop because the boys think the uniform is lame, and besides I hate the pants," and "We don't have full uniforming in our troop because it's too expensive for the boys in our area." The first guy needs the sermon, the second guy needs suggestions.

[buffalo2]

Guess I'm not sensitive enough to be so easily offended...

The difference between a horse and a superficial wannabe is quite clear.

And the difference between a person who is working to learn and grow versus one who is just going through the motions is usually pretty clear.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread even further with comments on presentation and verbiage instead of staying on topic.

[Eagledad]

Beautiful Oklahoma Day All

 

From Eamonn

>>Scouting is for Boy's. Our job as Scout Leaders is to provide a Scouting Program for the youth in the program. We are not out to save the world or the families of the Scouts>My perspective on the difference between a scout leader and a quality scout leader is the difference between a horse, and somebody who is dressed up like a horse.

 

A quality leader takes time to learn the program, time to understand it's methods, aims, and mission.

[johndaigler]

Bob White,

 

I tried to be clear and fair with my post, not aggressive, and I apologize if you felt attacked. My "attack" was on your words -- or atleast that was the plan.

 

Which piece was offensive? Which piece was wrong?

 

"Will this opinion strike some very personally? Maybe it will. Maybe enough to get them to take and use the available training. Maybe it will upset them enough to do their job or make room for someone who will."

 

Perhaps you and I are on the same page after all -- it's just easier to be writing that page than to be reading that page.

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[johndaigler]

Bob White,

 

I recieved your PM. I replied, but I'm not sure the system delivered it. I received an error message, but in similar situations the recipient actually did get my reply. Please let me know if it worked its way through to you.

 

jd

[Eamonn]

I am not going to join in the debate about horses. At a very young and tender age while attending Holy Cross School, we staged a Christmas play. Some Kids got to be Angels, others shepherds one lucky boy got to be Saint Joesph, three lucky little fellows got to be wise men. And I got to be the ASS!! To this day I can still smell the inside of the Ass head, and you try singing Christmas carols with a Asses head costume over your head.

Could it be that Mr Bob White was aware of this when he posted "Somebody dressed as a horse"? Is he in league with Sister Mary Matthew? Will all the dark secrets of my past life come back to haunt me and be posted in this forum. Will I get a bill from the London Diocese, for the wine I snitched when I was an alter boy?

Still back to the Thread.

I think that Quality Leaders are people with vision. People who put dreams into action.

In another thread it seems that the Methods of Scouting are being questioned.

To my way of thinking Quality Leaders are aware that the methods are there. They see the words and try to understand them. They see where they and the troop is at today. Some of the Methods should take very little effort or at least it seems that way at first glance.

Scouting Ideals, is an ongoing never ending journey for all of us who have ever taken the Scout Oath. Giving our Scouts the opportunity to see how they can live up to these fine ideals, by placing them in positions where they can show and prove to themselves that can be people who can be trusted,loyal,helpful,friendly,courteous,kind,

obedient,

[Eagledad]

>>He was telling me that he has been explaining to the adults in his new troop that he gained his knowledge of how to do it right by watching it done so many times in my troop.

[Eamonn]

Strange things happen. I seem to have lost about half of my last posting. The rest of the Scout Law was to be there!!

But as it happens I don't miss the half that isn't there.

A while back Hazing was the topic. There seemed to be no end in sight.

A long time ago I found that Q&A time with Cub Scouts can be a real waste of time. It starts off OK and then you get the kid that asks" What happens when little green men from another plant arrive on Air Force one and they want to..."

Here we are adults in this great program. With a whole bunch of ideas that work and have worked for a long time. We have for days looked at if a rich kid or a poor kid gets more or gets less out of Scouting.

I think that I'm about done with this topic.

As I look at the Scout Oath and Law, I don't see any advantage of being rich. Maybe a kid that is really poor might gain a better understanding of being Thrifty, out of sheer necessity?

Both the rich kid and the poor kid have equal opportunities,when it comes to the aim of Scouting.Both should be able too Be Prepared. Both should be able to do a good turn daily. Maybe the rich kid could put more money in the plate, but maybe the poor kid knows more people who need a good turn?

Heck, if we can get the rich kid and the poor kid to do all this stuff, have some fun. Participate in the odd adventure. Working on the methods should be a piece of cake.

Eamonn.

[Laurie]

Eamonn, you named some things leaders need to remember:

 

Find out what your skills are and what you like doing and do it well.

 

Scouting is for boys...Our job as Scout Leaders is to provide a Scouting Program for the youth in the program...not to save the world or the families of the Scouts.

 

Training Never Ends.

 

Check your Resources...Parents...the Chartered Organization and other Organizations...stores have helped them out with craft supplies.

 

Take or Make Time to See where you want to go. Set long term plans and short term plans... Every now and then take time to reflect how things are going.

 

Communicate, Communicate, Communicate!!

 

Be willing to listen. I can talk, but I've got to learn to listen more.

 

Know the youth you are serving. I can't think of anything better than those moments when I get to see a boy excited over his accomplishments, particularly when he tries something new and challenging.

 

Be open to criticism and correction. However, know that some just like to complain--but be aware of it all and sort through it to see if there is something new to be learned.

 

Step out of your comfort zone using the resources that have worked for so many in years past. Being silly at a Cub Scout pack meeting is great fun if one is willing to be laughed at--remember it's for the boys. Not very good at confrontation? Be willing to go to the right person, uncomfortable as it is, when you see something that could harm the youth.

 

Admit you don't have all the answers. Be willing to seek them out.

 

I'm not sure that I can ever accurately assess my own leadership skills, for I'm not objective enough. What I do know is that I love serving and the focus must always be on the youth, with the attention I give to my own self being that of "how can I better put into practice what I have learned". When it comes to the youth, they are really good barometers and don't usually exercise tact, so we'll get a good read from them--perhaps the most important one of all.