speech or just a question and answer session?

[zippie2223]

I have been having our den meetings at my house for a year. My wife just got a new job where she works nights. Pays well and we don't have to put the kids in day care, but she sleeps in the evenings. So now we can't meet at my house because sleeping with a bunch of second graders screaming in the house would be impossible. I checked with the CO and we can not have our meetings there. So I checked with the preacher at my church to see if we could meet there. He said that he will check with the deacons before he could bring it to a vote before the church council.

My mom (shes on the church council) called and asked me meet with the deacons tomorrow after church. She said they want to know what the scouts are all about. Do you guys think I should do a speech or just a question and answer session?

 

 

[LovetoCamp]

Try your local American Legion.

[hops_scout]

I'd say just a question and answer session. You dont really know what they want to hear:)

[johndaigler]

Zippie -

 

I can relate. My Wolf Den has grown from 7 to 12 Cubbies with our back to school recruiting efforts. We're struggling to find new leadership in order to split into two Dens, but you can imagine having meetings in my 10 month old house doesn't seem like such a good idea anymore! (I hope my wife doesn't read this thread or I'll be down talkin to the deacons in a day or two!!)

 

One approach is to think of tomorrow as if it were a recruiting event or new parent meeting. How would you handle those opportunities? Remember, what works for someone else might not be YOUR best option.

 

Here are some things to think about and perhaps be ready for:

 

What do you imagine the deacons' concerns are going to be? (This is a great time to use your inside resource to know the questions before they get asked!!)

 

Do you think their questions will be about BSA philosophy for Cubs and how that is/isn't consistent with the Church's thinking? Or are they more likely to be concerned about a bunch of running 7 yr olds' respect for their physical environment?

 

Will you need to (and be able to) describe a typical meeting? Maybe having a copy or two of a month worth of meeting plans would be informative. Do you have your "Program Helps" handy??

 

Will you be able to "Leave NO Trace"? They might be so kind as to have storage for you, but you're likely to need to reassure them that although 7/8 yr olds can get a little noisy, everything they need(snacks, drinks, crafts, tools, pencils, papers, garbage, etc.) will come in and go out with them.

 

What's the restroom situation? Wolves need one (more often than non-Den-Leaders imagine! !!) Are you ready to be responsible for cleanliness?

 

Does your Church have a religious award committee? Is now a GOOD time to bring up the concept? (Sorry, but playing politics comes from my old days as a school administrator!!)

 

Would you be comfortable asking if they would like to observe meetings until they are comfortable with your presence?

 

Can you promise to provide an extra parent or two to help while the boys learn to respect and appreciate their new digs??

 

They have the home field advantage so I'd be ready to let them set the stage for you. Can you be flexible and prepared to do either a monologue or a Q/A session?

 

Bells and whistles never hurt, but truth will win most days for you. I wouldn't suggest anything but honesty and sincerity. Be yourself!! It sounds like the Deacons will have a built in desire to be accomodating. Don't be nervous, just be confident that you and your boys can prove them right!!

 

Two last points:

 

Keep It Simple - Keep It Fun!!

 

Do Your Best!!

 

Wishing you tons of luck and your wife tons of sleep!!!

 

jd

 

 

 

[Mike F]

Zippie,

 

Good ideas already. I'd start out with a brief description of the program. Be sure to include things like citizenship, service, and duty to God. I wouldn't worry about slide show (unless you really like doing that), but would bring a scrap book or photo album with pictures of the kids in action.

 

One other thought - how many guys in the den are members of your church? How many are not members of any church? For many scouts, scout meetings in a church are the first time they ever set foot in one. Once they learn it's a fun (not scary) place and some of their buddies invite them to come on Sunday or to special youth events, it's a way to gain membership.

 

Another thought. Did you ask around the den about using another home or garage for meetings? Other parents might be willing to provide a place to meet as long as someone else remained in charge of the program.

 

I'm sure something will work out. Good luck!

 

-mike

[dsteele]

If I were in your shoes, and I have been, I'd walk in with one month's program helps. Have sufficient copies for all. Walk them through a typical den meeting and the make sure to make the ask -- "Can we use your church as a meeting place."

 

Then I would answer questions, having armed myself with the information from the other people posting here.

 

Good Luck! Let us know how it turns out.

 

Unc.

[zippie2223]

I meet with the church deacons and pastor after church Sunday about setting up a meeting place for my den. After a short Q&A session in which we covered insurance, two deep leadership, leave no trace, and religion, the pastor pulled me aside. He said that he would bring the matter to a vote before the council but he had some concerns about the religious part. He said that he could not support us meeting at the church if we could not mention that Jesus was the one true god and savior. I told his that we had to be religiously neutral, as long as we recruited from public schools. I told him that all the members of our den were Christians. And that I was sure that it would not be a problem, but that I could not promise him that that would always be the case. At that point it started raining and we agreed to talk after I was better informed.

 

If the pack or den is all Christians, is it alright to mention Jesus in our meetings?

(This message has been edited by zippie2223)

[johndaigler]

Zip,

 

Interesting can of worms that you're trying to open. I'm VERY curious how it will spill out!!!

 

Let me throw in my two cents, before the place gets crowded and I have to go get some aspirin!!!

 

Please forgive me ahead of time for stepping on toes, or disagreeing with anyone (including the BSA) who knows more than I do. I mean no disrespect. I only mean to offer my thoughts. IMHO, American Scouting, while a Reverence based program, is not a religious program. We don't teach religious beliefs, we encourage (expect?) boys to see religious reverence as character building and to find strength and growth in their own faiths. At the same time, I see it as a facet of our program to encourage (expect?) acceptance of others' reverence and faiths.

 

Personally, I'm comfortable with Graces, Benedictions and other, usually non-denominational, "prayers", songs, and discussions that focus on reverence without singling out (and therby raising above others?) specific pillars of specific faiths.

 

The question (and answer) is actually, I think, easier for me because my group is religiously mixed. My parameters are defined somewhat by a need to be tolerant and accepting of others and their family's choices. It may actually be more complicated for you in a more homogenous group where the expectation of respect for diversity can be comfortably under emphasized.

 

You said the conversation included, "He said that he could not support us meeting at the church if we could not mention that Jesus was the one true god and savior. I told his that we had to be religiously neutral, as long as we recruited from public schools. I told him that all the members of our den were Christians. And that I was sure that it would not be a problem, but that I could not promise him that that would always be the case."

 

This is a very real problem in my eyes -- one that would have me looking for a new place to meet. While mentioning Jesus is not in itself inappropriate, I would suggest that if you define him as "the one true god and savior", then you have stepped over a line that shouldn't be crossed over by a BSA leader. Even if all of you in the room agree, that act risks minimizing some of the boys in my group. Additionally, I see it as limiting your boys, as well, but others don't see it that way. IMHO, the BSA doesn't want to accept a role in raising one religious group over others. Even getting beyond the questions why, when and how often Jesus would play an important part in your Den meeting, I would wonder why the pastor's specific definition would be necessary?

 

I would suggest that you do your boys no disservice and you do the program a very real very positive service by acting as if your unit IS religiously diverse. I would suggest that every BSA leader's approach to questions of religion be similarly considered.

 

respectfully,

 

jd

[EagleInKY]

From my experience, religious issues seldom come up in den settings. In fact, I can't remember any specific religious-oriented matter coming up in the 5 years that I was directly involved with a den. I know we encouraged them to pursue their religious award on a few occasions, but that's about it.

 

Now, in pack meetings, we often have a benediction or prayer. At Blue & Golds or other events where food is served, we'll say grace (usually the Philmont Grace).

 

So, unless you're getting into a lot deeper conversations than I've seen, I think it's a moot point.

[zippie2223]

John,

"This is a very real problem in my eyes -- one that would have me looking for a new place to meet."

 

I think I'm with you on this one, just to keep things less complicate. If I open this can of worms they may not go back in. Think I'll try Trail Pounders idea,the American Legion or the local fire station.

 

Knowing that the rest of the group feels one way about god might inhibit kids feeling different then rest of us from speeking up about his own beliefs.

[Hunt]

I think another aspect of this is that you already have a CO--you don't want a second one, probably.

[zippie2223]

The problem is the CO has no room for us to have our den meetings. They have there own classes during the week and they already do give us room for the pack meetings.

[Twocubdad]

Sounds like you handled it well, but I agree it may be time to look for another venue.

 

What is your CO's participation in all this? Part of their responsibility in chartering a unit is to provide meeting space. I understand if they don't have room, then they don't have room, but helping you find another locale should be the responsibility of the Chartered Organization Rep. or possibly Committee chairman.

[zippie2223]

twocubdad,

"What is your CO's participation in all this?"

Our CO gives our pack a place to meet once a month, they also let the council have a lot of council stuff there (Baloo training, Cub Scout Summer camp, and some over nighters). Our Committee Chairlady (she also acts as the COR) asked me to handle our own meeting places (she seems more involved in council level stuff). I have never meet our COR (the COR that is on the charter) and I have been at 90% of the committee meetings. I been think that maybe we should do an end around the committee chair to get to the CO and ask them myself about a meeting place, but I don't want to step on any toes.

 

Btw, we had two dens fall apart or never get started because lack of den meeting places.