Working with own son

[mk9750]

Let me run this one by this esteemed group:

 

My 15 year old Life Scout ASPL son has gotten to the point where most teens get at one point or another. He knows everything (if you don't believe me, just ask him!), and I know nothing (and he can prove it!). But the odd part is that it only seems to affect Scouting. If we're doing a project around the house, he'll listen to my morsels of wisdom. But if I suggest he should being working on planning this, or making phone calls for that, or dealing with an issue by considering these three options, etc., he looks at me like I have three heads (I actually had two removed when I was 20, and neither has grown back yet, 'far as I can tell!).

 

I've used many of the skills I have in order to lead him toward doing the right thing (or anything at all some times), and it just isn't working. Our Scoutmaster has been trying too, with almost as abysmal results.

 

Here's the problem. The SPL's family is in the process of moving to another nearby town. He plans to stay with the Troop, but it's become pretty obvious he's "checked out" and is coasting during his last 6 weeks in office. So the burden of most of the work is now squarely on my son's shoulders. Disappointingly to me, My son resents having all of the responsiblity thrown at him. He wants to be elected SPL, so I figured that could be the hook to get my son to do a great job. It just isn't happening. Anyone have sucess dealing with this with their own son? I think I could be far more sucessful if it were someone else's son I was dealing with.

 

Mark

[boleta]

Mark Twain said, "It is amazing how much my parents learned when I turned 21." All teenagers know it all and their parents seem to know nothing.

 

I think Dad has to back off completely and let the Scout figure it out. He partly doesn't do the job so he can get on Dad's last nerve, which also gives him attention, albeit negative attention. This is easier said than done. Scout's behavior is extremely aggravating to Dad making it very difficult for him not to intervene.

[Laurie]

This is pretty typical, at least in my experience working with youth from age pre-k through college age. One thing that has become a practice for me is to be involved with what my children are involved in, but not with them directly. I also spoke to my Cub son before accepting the CM position; I asked him how he would feel about that type of involvement from his mom. No problem--he loved it. He also liked that I asked him about it. However, I do not do anything directly with him. As for other leaders who mentioned problems with their sons, I made a suggestion that has worked: have another leaders assume responsibility for your child. That said, you seem to have done that. But, did you talk to the SM? And does your know or even suspect that you might be the reason that the SM is supporting him? If so, he may not believe that the SM is being genuine but is instead supporting *you* in supporting your son. Knowing something wasn't quite right for our older son, and both of us were involved in that troop, we were incredibly frustrated when we knew we needed to let him make choices and just wait. He's younger than your son, but he made some incredibly difficult choices, excellent choices that we are very proud of, but it took him meeting some other adults in leadership position who took a genuine interest in him without us having anything to do with it. What a difference it made for him because *he* was the one with the relationships now, and this met his desire for independence. He asked us to be involved, but he does prefer some distance, and we're ok with that. Every once in awhile, since my husband and I are both leaders in both units that our sons are in, we ask them how things are--if they're ok with the amount of time we give them or if they'd like more or less of it. Hang in there--you sound concerned, and your son sounds normal. Maybe you're being challenged now in what I think the hardest part of parenting is: waiting on our children to ask for help they need.

[mk9750]

Thanks for the responses so far, including the one that came via private message.

 

You are all right, of course. Intellectually, I know the right course of action is to guide and allow him to succeed or fail on his own. We all (as adult leaders in our Troop) generally do a good job with this. It is easier with some Scouts than with others, but we generally do a good job of training them and then letting them lead. This is a bit of a different situation because of the "unelected" status of his position. It is important that he step up and do his best. He isn't so far, and other Scouts have suffered so far (monthly campout cancelled, next one in danger of being cancelled).

 

I may have not communicated clearly, but I am supporting the SM's work with my son as he is trained to lead a Troop, not the other way around (at least that's the way I see it. It might be interesting to have an outside party look in and give us an opinion on that one!). Communication between the SM and my son tends to be somewhat one sided, with the SM trying to explain what needs done, and my son not being very responsive. I try to reinforce what the SM is saying.

 

What is weird about this is that more than most kids I've encountered (certainly more than his older brother was), this son is dillegent at most everything he undertakes. Most people tend to feel very comfortable giving him things to do and are very satisfied with the results. It's just this one aspect of Scouting that he seems to be shrugging off and not putting forth the same effort.

 

Dad knows that dad backing off would help arrive at the desired results. Dad is having a tough time allowing less than his son's best effort, because it it so out of character for son. I recognize that's as much MY problem as my son's, and I am trying. But using the opportunity I have to work more directly and specifically with one youth leader in this case is too hard for me to pass up.

 

Thanks for the responses. I look forward to more.

 

Mark

[johndaigler]

It looks like your son's behavior is a way of asking you to differentiate and separate your dual roles of scouting adult and father. His actions seem, to me, to be saying that he's looking for one and you keep taking the other. My suggestion to you is to "keep busy" Scouting with some of the other boys and let your son choose the Scouting he wants to share with you.

 

Laurie's comment about asking her boy if it would be OK with him if she took on some Leadership responsibilities s

[Fuzzy Bear]

It happened one year at a Scout Show. The Scouts took on the responsibility of doing a really poor job with their entry and they were rewarded for their efforts with a Participant's ribbon.

 

Later, I was given the opportunity to award the Troop that very ribbon at a COH with all of the parents in attendance.

 

I used that presentation to give them some valuable information about prospecting. I told them about a type of mineral that looks like what a person thinks of as gold but it really isn't. It sparkles and is flashy and is fairly easily found but has no value in relation to real gold. It is known as Fool's Gold. I told them that finding real gold takes hard work and is very difficult to find. But if they want something of value then they would need to do the work themselves and it would not be easy. I brought the SPL forward and awarded him their ribbon. It was a quiet reception.

 

I had left my post as SM by the next year when the Scout Show rolled around. I was involved with some type of exhibit when to my surprise some of the Scouts from the Troop came around and invited me over to their booth. They had done a superb job building a life size monkey bridge with two climbing towers at each end. They had done the work themselves and later they were awarded one of the top prizes. That evening as we were tearing down our exhibit about ten of the Scouts came running over to me gushing with enthusiasm. They said as they held up their ribbon for me to see, "what we have this year is real gold!" They said it over and over.

 

I am amazed even to this day about the change that a year makes in a young person.

 

FB

 

[Eamonn]

Kind of, sort of, maybe? I have at times the same sort of things with OJ, who is 16 and knows even more then your Lad knows.

We have a really good relationship and share most of our thoughts and feelings.

He can at times be Bull Headed. When this kicks in there is no living with him.

Much as I hate to admit it, a lot of the time he does have a certain amount of "Right" On his side. What makes it wrong is that he isn't willing to look at things from another angle or view point.

Teenagers, I have been told do have a very strong sense of justice and tend to see things as black or white.They don't see anything as gray.

OJ, is very much that way. Only to make things worse he isn't very forgiving. Once he and only he decides that you are wrong there is no making it right. If he decides that he has been wronged by someone, that someone is on his list and it takes a lot of time and a lot of being right to be removed from the list. There is one ASM in his troop that somehow got on the list at Summer Camp 2003 and is still there. The ASM is a really nice chap in my book, but it seems he told OJ and his chums off for something that they didn't think that they did and this poor chap is on the list.

It is almost as if the word compromise isn't in his dictionary. Needless to say at times I find this very infuriating. I hate leaving things up in the air or hanging out there. Worse still I hate having to find things that will back me up. And worst of all is when he is right and I am wrong!!

I am not actively involved in the troop which he is in. He has been slowly trying to change some of the things that he feels are not right. At times he wants me to back him up. Of course I don't want to get caught in the middle. So I steer him to where the answers are, that way it isn't "My Dad says.." It is the Patrol Leaders Handbook or whatever says...

He knows that I am very proud of him and has an idea how much I love him. This is a big help when he gets Bull Headed. Somewhere deep down he knows that I'm not going to steer him wrong.

One thing that really helps me is that I remember what a pain I was when I was his age. In my case it was politics. With a hard line conservative Mother, a Father who was a member of the Labour Party and me in the Young Socialists, meal times at our house were lots of fun.

Eamonn

[Laurie]

Yep, the resources are great. But never ever offer them unless asked for them! We have a nice Scouting library at home now, and it's available for our sons to use anytime. We put the books out of reach of the baby (who seems to use them most!), and then I told the boys they may use them any time, just to please be sure to return them when finished with them. They occassionally get used, but occassionally is better than before when I'd suggest the book and they acted like it would be poisonous to touch. So, having some tools handy that they can choose to use does help at times.

 

Now, another thing that works with us is this, and the dinner table is one good place, a hike is another, depending on the Scouting-related topic (grown-up issues don't get discussed with a baby in earshot). I have actually asked the boys how they would handle situations I've come across. Nothing that would give personal info about anyone else in Scouts, but general scenarios in areas in which I personally am learning. What this does is open the door to them helping (kids have great insights) and also gets them thinking about situations and realizing that seeking advice is good (by example they see this) and at times leads to them presenting something for discussion.

 

Just some thoughts