Help with our SPL

[hotdesk]

The troop elects the Senior Patrol Leader every six months. The troop doesn't have any certain standards or requirements, but usually scouts that have been to the Council JLT or have worked their way up the leadership ladder run.

 

Back in March however a scout who worked his way up the leadership ladder (was a Asst. Patrol Leader, Quatermaster, Patrol Leader, and Assistant Senio Patrol Leader) was asked to run and he agreeded. Well he wasn't as ready or prepared to do the job as everyone thought.

 

The Assistant Senior Patrol, Scoutmaster, and Jr. Assistant Scoutmaster have all tried to give him advice and guide him to do a better job, but it hasn't worked. He just won't listen. He acts very immature and just isn't handling the job very well at all.

 

Well at Summer Camp this past week things got a little out of hand. His leadership techniques were very poor. A few examples include pushing scouts to get them in straight lines and beating a kid with a chair to get him up. He was told both times to stop and he just didn't.

 

What would you do??? This kid is a GOOD KID, their is no such thing as a BAD KID. Kids marked BAD are just kids who people don't want to work with or just are misunderstood. But even if their were bad kids this is not one of them. However, how do you get through to him??? Do you set up future requirements to become a Senior Patrol Leader??? Any advice would be helpful.

[Eamonn]

What is your position in the troop?

Eamonn.

[hotdesk]

I am the Jr. Asst. Scoutmaster and my father is the Scoutmaster of the troop.

[wojauwe]

This could be a bigger issue than the boy being a poor leader.

Hitting a boy with a chair is totally unacceptable and can be reason to kick a boy out of the troop.Not a first option though.

This calls for a Scoutmaster talk and a disscusion with troop committee.If your SPL is using his position to bully then it's

in violation of the safe haven part of scouting and becomes an adult issue.

It may be time to have a new election.

 

[acco40]

Some not so great Scouts (always pitch in to help, show up on time, advance regularly, etc.) make lousy leaders. Some not so great Scouts make excellent leaders. Your troop seems to have made the same mistake many corporation do! It chose a leader based on non-leadership skills.

 

The first hint that I saw was this - "was asked to run and he agreeded." If the idea to run was not the Scouts, he may have felt deep down that he was not ready but did not want to disappoint and so he accepted the role that his leadership wanted him to take, i.e. he demonstrated he was a good follower. I've seen some boys act in this manner if they are thrust into a position that deep down they do not want, i.e he feels mom, dad, or others "roped" him into his present role.

 

Now that the "damage" is done, what to do. As previously stated, leadership and safety are two different things. The adults should not let safety be an issue. Beating with a chair is not a good sign; same with pushing and shoving. These will have to be dealt with firmly and promptly. As for leadership, who did this individual pick as his ASPL? Do they get along? Do they work in harmony. The SPL and Scoutmaster need to have a very close and respectful relationship. The SM and SPL have much work to do. As for the remainder of the troop - they boys are learning a valuable lesson about picking your their leaders! It does have a big impact on them and should be carried out with extreme caution - something many adluts have not learned about our election process (witness a voting record of uner 50%!).

 

[Eamonn]

You don't say if this Lad has taken the JLTC Training?

While there are some people that are just natural leaders. People that can lead others to do anything or go anywhere without question. We believe that Leadership can be taught. It is the duty of the Scoutmaster to guide and prepare the SPL. Having an election and giving the Lad the patch is only one very tiny step.

While I agree 100% with the wise people who have posted that pushing and hitting are wrong and can not be tolerated. I do question what made this Lad resort to such un Scout like behavior? Of course not knowing the Lad or what led up to his outbursts it is impossible to say that such and such is to blame.

I do wonder if he was just in over his head and these outbursts were just him allowing a lot of built up frustration erupt and spew out?

The Scoutmaster if he isn't aware that this has happened has to be made aware and he needs to conference with this Lad as soon and as quickly as possible. If any lines were crossed and from what you post it seems to me that they were crossed the Troop committee needs to get involved and take whatever steps they deem necessary, hopefully after they have met with the Scoutmaster and thought long and hard, not just about what he has done, but what led up to him doing it.

Eamonn.

 

[Eagledad]

>>I do wonder if he was just in over his head and these outbursts were just him allowing a lot of built up frustration erupt and spew out?

[hotdesk]

I'm going to try and answer the questions that have been asked.

 

Acco40 asked about the ASPL. The ASPL is a scout who ran against the SPL and lost the election, but not by many votes. The SPL and ASPL do not exactly make a point to talk and work together, as we have seen our SPL not at some meetings and the ASPL does not know what the plan is.

 

Eamonn asked about Council JLT. The scout has not taken Council JLT. He simply worked his way up through different positions with the troop.

 

Some problems I have with the advice given is that most of it calls for punishment. Our troop is a believer that harsh punishment (suspensions, "kicking" out a scout, etc.) are not needed. We tend to gear toward other "punishment" and try to make policies that will prevent the problem in the future. Do you guys have any ideas??? Suggestions for the Scoutmaster or Troop Committee.

 

And many of you seem to suggest that the Scoutmaster must not be working with the scout. That is simply not true. He has tried to teach leadership and has tried to give guidance, but like I said the scout simply doesn't take it and goes toward more immature things like beating the scout with a chair.

 

 

For Acco40 I do know, for a fact, the the current SPL feels that he was roped into and feels that he is not ready. He didn't make this known until about a month or two after trying the job.

 

Eamonn from what I saw with my own eyes is that the SPL told the scout to get up and he didn't. Instead of trying again he got upset and started beating him. However, as soon as it started it was stopped by the Assistant Senior Patrol Leader. I do feel that maybe you hit it head on and that he may not have been ready for this position. He may have gotten in over his head and may have not been the guy for this job.

 

 

(This message has been edited by hotdesk)

[hotdesk]

I do need to add something that has not been put in yet.

 

Seeing this at Summer Camp was hard for me. It has hard for me to believe and hard for me manage with.

 

Why you might ask? The reason is simple. I was the one person who approached the scout about running. I told him that I thought he would do a great job and that I thought he was ready. He agreed and I nominated him.

 

You might ask what was I doing asking a scout to run. Well that's simple also. The past Senior Patrol Leaders (we have only had a Boy Ran Troop for about 2 1/2 years so have only had 3 SPLs before this one) and decide on who would be the best for the troop.

 

Well this time this kid's name came up. Nobody had noticed problems with him before. He was helpful as a ASPL, represented his patrol well as a Patrol Leader, and was the first scout to make an improvement with the equipment we had. He attended meetings, went beyond the expected call for Service Hours, and attended a majority of the campouts. This kid seemed ready. He seemed mature and he seemed capable.

 

Another question I have is does anyone else believe that this could be a problem with him being mature or not??? If it does is 13 and younger just too young to run a troop??? Should a Scout be older??? However, still this kid has reached Life. He is only a project away from Earning his Eagle Rank. Shouldn't something have clicked by now???

[OldGreyEagle]

I am confused a tad. You say the scoutmaster is working with him, yet the ASPL doesnt know what the plan is when the SPL is absent. That sent up ref flags to me. Just what is the scoutmaster doing? You said the SPL and ASPL dont communicate well, again, what is the scoutmaster doing? The Scoutmaster should be assuring there is communication between the SPL and the ASPL and that there is a plan and the ASPL knows it whether the SPL will be there or not. Just what is considered "working with him"

 

next, some scouts can be SPL at 13, others cant and some can be Eagle at 13 and others cant. Depends on the boy. If this is a radical change in behavior, has any asked whats up? Changes at home? Good kids dont beat other kids with lawn chairs for any reason. And what do you mean "beat with a lawn chair" could you provide more details on that one?

[acco40]

Our troop has had a 12 yr old SPL. Age is not the issue.

 

I have a few questions. First, you mention you nominated this boy. I'm not familiar with a party system in Scouts. In our troop, if an individual decides to run for "office", he runs. Second, I know many troops determine an ASPL by many different means. However, the SPL should pick his own ASPL. The ASPL should not be "elected." Can you imagine what would have happened if Al Gore became the VP because he lost a close election to George Bush? (Well maybe we'd have another 1000 American and 20,000 Iraqi lives to deal with.)

 

You are in a tough spot. As a Jr SA, you must have access to The SM Handbook. Read it. Follow it. Good luck!(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Eagledad]

>>He has tried to teach leadership and has tried to give guidance, but like I said the scout simply doesn't take it and goes toward more immature things like beating the scout with a chair.

[hotdesk]

More questions for me to answer.

 

OldGrayEagle wants me to provide more information about this beating. Well the Senior Patrol Leader grabbed a chair and started hitting the scout in the head and legs before the Assistant Senior Patrol could stop it.

 

Acco40 wants to know about nominations. Well in our troop a scout needs to be nominated by another scout in our troop. Lets say Jon wants to run then Jon needs to find somebody like Don to nominate him. Acco40 also mentioned selecting the ASPL. Well our troop allows the SPL to pick any scout he wants to be his ASPL. Therefore, in our troop we should always have a good ASPL-SPL connection. However, for whatever reason, the SPL picked this person. He also mentioned the SM Handbook. I do have access to this. I have read it from front to back a couple different times. Remember my dad is the Scoutmaster.

 

EagleDad wants to know how the scout feels about what happened to the other scout. Well I don't think he believes it was as bad as it actually turned out to be. I believe that, by riding with him on the ride home, that he doesn't feel remourse. He also talked about the maturity level of the troop. The troop is has had Senior Patrol Leaders who haven't needed that much assistance because of their backgrounds in scouting and other programs. The SPLs of the past have been guys who guy look at what current decision will mean for the future of the troop and then decide what to do. They have been mostly 15-16 years of age. They have ran efficent Patrol Leader Council meetings and executed a successful annual program which has seen between 9-12 new scouts each year since we started a Boy Ran Troop (we used to be lucky to get more than 3 or 4).

[wojauwe]

Our troop uses a weekend outing to have a troop wide JLT for all junior leaders.You can get the materials at your scoutshop.

Going through the exercises together helps develope a sense of team leadership within the troop.

Stress and lack of leadership tools gained from formal training may have a lot to do with your SPL going over the edge.

Your PLC should be producing a written plan for upcoming meetings so that ASPL should have information he needs if SPL misses meeting.We do PLC's monthly.

Our current SPL has started the process of doing a reflection

after each meeting.He asks what went right or wrong and why.

Also asks how can we make it better.If a leader has the support of a leadership team it can take a lot of the pressure off.

It's hard for someone who does not know the people in your troop to give you more than broad advice on how to deal with

your situation.I'm still troubled by the violence involved in

the situations you've described.

SPL definitely needs to have a serious talk with adult leader to get to the root of the problem.Give him the chance to change.

Though troop should be youth run,adults need to be more closely involved if there is a youth protection or safety issue.

 

[Eamonn]

OK Hotdesk,

Let's just for a couple of minutes imagine that you are the Scoutmaster.

What action or actions do you think should be taken?

Eamonn