Who Would You Ask?

[Eamonn]

I have to admit to being one of those real pains who thinks that the uniform no matter what it looks like is more then just cloth.

The uniform and the wearing of the uniform are an outward sign that the person wearing it has accepted the ideals of Scouting.

Other then the rare occasion when I don't wear the socks, if I'm in uniform it's the whole uniform. I tend to think that some leaders either don't see it that way or lack the skill to make the point.

If the National Committee phoned me and said "Eamonn old boy we want you to research a uniform that will work now get working on it." (Not that they ever will.)

I would start by asking the Scouting Moms about what materials. Then I would visit the troops that are wearing the uniform as it is now. My thinking being that the Lads that don't wear it now really can't improve upon something that they know nothing about.

Then I would visit the uniformed Cub Scout packs and see what these little fellows think the Scout Uniform should be.

Bob makes a good point that even with 90% of the people liking it there would still be a lot of unhappy campers.

As it is now I am not sure if we need a uniform for the camp site or the meeting hall.As most Scouts get a little dirty at camp. I think that the meeting hall works better. But I would have to find that out.

Eamonn

[Bob White]

"If you're going to do this type of uniform survey, you certainly dont want to solicit the choir about their thoughts on singing in the choir."

 

I totally disagree, and here is why. If I am going to get new robes for the chior I am going to be more intereseted in what the people in the current robes want, than in the non-choir members. Why? becasue the puprose of the choir is not to get to wear a flashy robe. The purpose is to add to the celebration of the worship service through your participation. The person who wants to to that doesn't care what the robe looks like, they want to sing. So I want to know what the people who are there, actively participating, want. If you aren't willing to wear whatever the others are willing to wear then that is your personal problem. We of the choir welcome you to join us but until you do you do not have a say in how we choose to be appear.

 

The purpose of scouting is not to wear a nifty uniform. The uniform is an outward representation of who we are, and what we believe in. If someone beleives in it too they will wear whatever the uniform is that symbolizes that affiliation. If someone is unwilling to make that committment then they should not expect to be included in how the faithful dress.

 

We will never please everyone, so lets at least be sure we please the ones who are unafraid to show their support.

 

 

[fotoscout]

There is a Cardinal difference here Bob, robes are mandatory in the choir. Regardless of the outcome the robes will be worn! You want to sing, you wear the robe! You dn't like the robe, you don't sing!

 

Certainly the people who wear the uniform need to be happy with it. But there is a crucial premise missing from this thread. Why is the uniform being changed. You seem to assume that it's change for the sake of change, I assume it's an attempt to change the uniform to something that more people will wear.

 

Neither of us knows what the proper premise is, but yes it does have a great impact on who it is that you listen too.

 

[Bob White]

I can easily remember when the uniform changed into its current incarnation. There was no specific event that spurred it. No cause that created the change. Adults and scouts alike who wore the khaki uniform with jeans began wearing the tan uniform shirt with jeans. Those that wore a complete uniform in khaki transitioned to a complete tan and green uniform.

 

The uniform change did not change people. Those who had pride in being a member of the scouting movement showed that pride by dressing the part.

Those who were apathetic before remained apathetic afterwards.

 

Good uniforming comes from yhow much you like and respect the program, not from the fashion of the uniform.

 

 

[evmori]

Good uniforming comes from how much you like and respect the program, not from the fashion of the uniform. (typos corrected)

 

Interesting. Especially since the uniform isn't required. I feel it is more fashion. Why else would kids not want to wear the uniform to school or even to and from Troop meetings? Don't get me wrong. I fully support wearing the uniform and have always in my Troop. Actually, I like the uniform!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

To me, the important question is whether there is something about the uniform that is keeping boys out of scouting--obviously, to learn if that is the case, you need some focus groups of boys who aren't in scouting. I also have to say that while the uniform is an important method of scouting, if there is something defective in the method (say, if there is really something wrong with the current uniform), it is to be expected that the boys will lose some respect for that method.

[OldGreyEagle]

All of what has been said is all the more reason for a nation wide survey of merginal and non scouts to ask why they are marginal or non-scouts. We here can have all kinds of reasons, dorky uniforms, poorly trained leaders, program not understood by the youth, etc. But until we ask we will never know and will only be operating on conjecture. I would agree that the uniform is not the reason why a majority of non-scouts are non-scouts, its a good smoke screen but the idea is to dig under that to the underlying reasons

[Fat Old Guy]

" Because if they have been Second Class for two or three years then there are bigger problems in that unit then the uniform will solve."

 

Not really. Maybe they just don't want to take the swim test.

[Laurie]

FOG, maybe they don't want to take the swim test. BUT, have they been taught what they need to know? Have they been given opportunities to take the test? Have they been been praised for their efforts even when they haven't made it...yet? This hits close to home. Our former non-swimmer son dreaded that test. He said everyone else could swim. Guess what? The troop had a swim night. It turns out most don't know how to swim. So the leaders taught them how, got them started. Now they are passing. That was only this past winter. Obstacles like this can be overcome. This may not always be the case, but I do believe this is one way that adults can help the boys--by providing the opportunity, lessons, and as many tests as needed. It was not easy, but it was doable.

[Bob White]

OGE,

A survey was done by the BSA not quite two years ago, where a couple thousand scout aged boys were surveyed. They were asked , among other things, if they could do any activity what would they wand to do. The answers were nearly all based on adventure. Mountain climbing, cave exploring, white water rafting, rappelling, and other common scouting activities were mentioned. When asked if they had ever heard of the Boy Scout program the response was nearly 100% yes.

 

When asked why they were not members the most frequent answer was...."No one ever asked me to join"

 

Before we worry about the uniform, let's ask them to join scouting. Then let's make them proud to be scouts by giving them the adventure promised them by the Scouting program.

[evmori]

Maybe they can't swim! And maybe they are afraid of the water!

 

 

[Laurie]

Ed, I realize my post may sound argumentative; that was not my intent at all though. My son was terrified of the water. This is where peer pressure becomes a good thing, and in Scouting, being able to handle one's self in the water is very important. Therefore, the boys all came out for swim night. The leaders are outstanding in this particular area; 3 are lifeguards, and all can swim. When the leaders began to ham it up, then some games in the more shallow water were underway, there was too much going on for any one boy to be singled out. Therefore, keeping all safety practices in place, the leaders were able to work with the boys who were scared and/or who couldn't swim. By leaders, I include the PL here too (we only have one PL). Bit by bit, more of the boys joined in. This may have been the most productive troop night ever. The majority of the boys--5 of 6 boys who bridged last year--could not swim and were considered non-swimmers at the last summer camp. Of that number, at least 4 can now swim well enough to pass the test. The fear and the ability were dealt with. But like I said, this might not always work--it did this time though.

[evmori]

Laurie,

I was actually responding to Fat Old Guy's post. Being involved in my district's winter swim program, I have seen many a Scout who was afraid of the water overcome that fear. I have also seen many a Scout not overcome that fear. It happens. But by making the statement (not you)

"Because if they have been Second Class for two or three years then there are bigger problems in that unit then the uniform will solve." isn't accurate!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy]

Maybe he just hates getting wet and has no interest in learning to swim.

[OldGreyEagle]

Bob, I have no doubt if you say such a survey was done, then it was, the question I have is how come it's not mentioned more. Why a few years later am I just being told it happened now. I would like to read the data, where can I find it?