scout bully

[Eamonn]

Spider,

He sounds like a little Toad!!

I think that is very commendable that you are doing everything that you can to be as objective as possible and maybe keep this Lad in the troop. I'm not so sure if I would allow anyone to take away the Scoutmaster Conference from me if I was the Scoutmaster. I happen to believe that this is my job.

You sound like a very level headed fellow and I get the feeling that if anything you would give this Lad a lot more opportunity to start on the right path then anyone else might.

Still maybe the best thing for everyone would be if he could join another local troop.

Eamonn

[committeechair]

Your best "weapon" is becoming Scoutmaster. My son was bullied for years by a kid raised by grandparents who saw the devil as a little angel. This kid wasn't bright in school, and in fact had suffered brain damage from father. But he was very good at knowing when adults weren't looking! He'd do all sorts of abuse to my son and others, and as soon as they'd be pushing themselves away an adult would look and see a "fight." My son ended up doing so many hours of work because of this. The bully would cry and moan "HE DID IT!" My husband even saw the entire situation many times, but the others believed Bully.

Finally after 2 years in the troop, he wasn't being promoted. No one was. The troop was a mess because of this kid. Grandma got mad, moved Bully to another troop who is now about to give him an eagle! At school he is still beating my son up....

Anyhow, after the kid left our troop I became Committee Chairman. My husband and I agreed that as long as one of us were in a top position Grandma wouldn't bring Bully back. I spent a year as CC, then I resigned when my husband became Scoutmaster this year. It is our insurance! If there are any squabbles involving our son, an ASM is the one in charge to avoid favoratism. We are getting a lot more respect now.

Good Luck!

[goodkidsmom]

These are interesting posts. We have a boy who is always getting in trouble, mostly just bugging people, goofing off, not paying attention, leaving the meeting, but he also bullies some kids, including my son, in and out of scouts. My son is quiet and well behaved and has never been in trouble in or out of scouts (and this isn't just Mom talking, his teachers and other adults all agree). My son and husband and I have complained and documented the problems with the bully numerous times. The asst SMs have all agreed that he is a real problem. The SM threatened to kick him out several times, and the SM made him promise to stay clear of my son or else. After a few more times of bugging / interrupting / harrassing my son, the SM finally tried to kick him out, but his Mom complained to the council and the committee stuck up for her. They didn't get the point that the most recent few problems, while by themselves not necessarily enough to kick the kid out, were just part of a very long pattern. The kid is still in, and recently the SM has been critical of my kid - perhaps because mine was the one who complained? I'm going to put up a new post about that issue.......

[Bob White]

Which Committee? If you are refering to the Council, they do not have any authority in this matter as far as keeping the scout in the unit or not. That is a unit level decision. The troop committee on the other hand does have a say.The Guide to Safe scouting requires the scout and his parents to meet with the troop committee to determine a plan of action if the scout is to remain in the unit.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fuzzix_cub]

Yeah,bullying is difficult to deal with and un-tolereable. In my own oppinion,I think that whoever can do somthing SHOULD do it.

 

Though calling the police in my thoughts,is the first thing anybody should do if their child is assulted.

[committeechair]

Unfortunately, it doesn't get better over time. There is a bully that started out in my son's Cub den (I was the leader) in 3rd grade. As long as I was the leader and didn't allow mistreatment of others, used timeouts, etc, the bully was kept at a 'tolerable'stage. Once he got into Boy Scouts, however, I was no longer in charge of rules. Since meetings were at night, his caretakers attended the meetings and interfered with any disciplining that went on. After 2 years of me complaining to Scoutmaster and going up the ladder to other people about what to do, the kid wasn't advance any longer. Bully moved to another troop.

But the harrasment he dished out to my son continued at school. And to others in our troop. Finally I sent a note to the principal, and a carbon copy to a board member (our superentendent had quit, or else one would have been sent). I said that the physical abuse in the halls must stop or I would get the police involved. I never got a response, but my son didn't get bothered again last year.

This bully is so bad he gets younger Scouts to come tell my husband (the new Scoutmaster) that he's fat at district events. My husband has sworn that as long as he is the SM, this kid will not be allowed back in our troop!

You have to take action right away or it just gets worse.

[acco40]

CC,

 

Contrary to popular belief, the Committe, NOT THE SCOUTMASTER, is tasked with handling discipline issues within the troop.

[EagleScout316]

I gotta say, from experience growing up around Chicago, that banning a kid from ever coming back to something is not the cure to a problem; the kid becomes vindictive, and may very well end up joining a street gang (now he's become more of a problem than he was).

Just recently, I've become an Assistant Scoutmaster of a troop out here in Peoria, Il, while attending Bradley University; they are a great bunch of kids, but not without their disputes, of course. On a campout we went on last weekend, problems ranged from kicking each other while hiking in a straight line, tapping each other with sticks, purposely trying to annoy myself, and even coming close to getting physical with me. The best way I could have punished them was to simply reward them: physical workouts. I figured that since I'd be doing Personal Fitness with them in about a month, now was a good time to get them started. Everytime they did something that I clearly told them not to do (or that was against common sense, like hitting another kid in the head with a water bottle), click, click, click, they got some sort of calisthenics to do after we finished our hike. Now, some retorted that they didn't have to, so I made it simple for them; either they served their punishments, or they didn't participate in the games I would teach them. From a personal perspective, I must say that doing workouts like pushups, sit ups, jumping jacks, squats and such, it really gave them some discipline. For two of them that were having issues, I had them push a log up a hill. What was really beneficial to me was that after they had done everything that was expected of them, and before we had yet to play any games, one of them told me that this was the best campout he had been on in awhile (must've been all those endorphins, lol). Now, with the kids in your troop, spider, I'd just assign them physical workouts to do together (moving logs/ equipment/etc., doing calisthenics, and even running together). Now after they finish those things, it's important to reward their good behavior right away (kids are like puppies, in that if you don't reprimand them or reward them within 10 seconds or so of their actions, they really don't make the connections).

Hope all of this helps,

-ES316

[OldGreyEagle]

The Guide to Safe Scouting says:

Constructive discipline. Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Corporal punishment is never permitted.

and

Unit Responsibilities Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members.

 

So, how does your behavior square with BSA policy? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[EagleScout316]

Well, I must say that I really don't allign something the likes of corporal punishment with something like that of calisthenics; I've always seen it as spanking or whipping and such. Corporal punishment has been generally defined as: the infliction of pain by a teacher or other official upon the body of a youth as a penalty for doing something which has been disapproved by the punisher. I really don't see calisthenics as a type of shame; I do the workouts right along with them, so that they don't feel out of place. In the sense of pain, doing pushups or squats is similar to walking a mile; it is completely legal for a SM to lengthen the amount of miles we go on a hike. Some might see that as inflicting pain, but in a sense, it is teaching them pain tolerance by building their endurance. Also, I feel that I should have not used the word 'punishment' earlier; rather, I should have used discipline. Discipline and punishment are not the same thing. The goal of discipline is to teach. The goal of punishment is to inflict a penalty in retaliation for a wrongdoing. My purpose was to teach them some self-discipline (I didn't have them doing situps until they couldn't move, for instance, but had them doing more sets at lighter repetitions). If they ever had any problems with the workouts, they were sure to tell me, and I gave them ample time to rest or go play some games for a bit. It made sense to use physical workouts, since some of the boys would be attending Philmont in a few months. One of them who was planning on going had some sort of knee problem (it sounded like a german brand beer name); I worked with him on special stretches to strengthen his knees, and then moved on to squats for general leg strength. The discipline I use is similar to that of the martial arts; while it might be used as a type of reprimand, it also builds self-esteem and and self-regulation. Now, corporal punishment has been outlawed in my high school for awhile, but teachers are still allowed to make students do some sort of calisthenics as a discipline (wall squats, serving detention by working out with the wrestlers, or throwing a medicine ball up in the air). I've received no complaints, not from the scouts, their parents, or the SM. The other adults on the trip were in plain view, and did not object to my actions. In the end, I really don't see something like pushups and the like as a corporal punishment.

[Lynda J]

Kevin was having trouble with two bullies at school (6th grade) He came home one day with a hugh red whelp on his arm. One of these boys had shot a paper clip with a rubber band and hit him that morning and at 4:30 it was still red. Believe me I was at the school the next morning and in the principles office. Took Kev with me to show her the now burise that was there. Made it very clear that if it happened again I would be back up there and then I would bring a police officer. They moved both boys from Kevins class and have put them is special classes for trouble kids. Both of these boys are in trouble all the time. Spend most of each day in detention.

 

We had one boy in our troop that we finally had to ask to leave. He became such a problem that he was actually endangering other boys. We were having parents tell us that if this boy went on an activity their son would not be allowed to go.

I worry about this boy. He has more anger inside him than any kid I have worked with in the past 40 years. There become a point that it won't matter what you do with some bullies you can't get through to them and at that point you have to look at what is best for the entire troop, not just the one boy. If removing him for a while is part of that then so be it.

[EagleScout316]

In response to Kevin, sorry to hear that this sort of thing happened to him, as I've had more than my share of getting picked on as a kid. Personally, you should teach Kevin to deal with these sort of things on his own, as problems of this sort don't just stop at school. I.e. I was once running throughout a public library just to get away from two bullies from my junior high. How you teach this to Kevin should be through your own ideals, but I'd personally choose martial arts, as there will be some time where he will be completely by himself, without anyone to help him out. Many scoutmasters that I've met have agreed on this point that the best way to get rid of a bully is with physical force. However, my mother didn't agree with this view, and said I should always walk around in a group of friends. This didn't work out too well for me, so I just made some comments that actually got me into a lot of trouble at my school, but then again, no one has tried pushing me around ever since. But hey, we all follow our own paths, so which ever one you choose to help Kevin down, just be sure to keep him on it.

In response to the two boys, I personally would have had a peer moderator talk to all three of them and try to discover the problems that existed between them, first. Then I might have a police officer come in and grill the boys on what battery is, and what can happen if you are prosecuted for it. I'd move on to have all three boys in some sort of class where they all are working together. I personally don't think that you should put kids in a special class, because it's pretty much the same as sending a child to jail: we don't want to deal with your problems right now, so you're going to a holding cell. I mean, obviously, there's a line you cross that will send you to jail, but if you can be helped, you should be helped. Like John Kerry said, war is an option, but it should never be our first option. In a similar stance, disciplining children should be taken lightly; not too hard and not immediately.

Yes, there are those alotted few boys in the scouts who have such a hard time with control that they often don't know how to handle any sort of situation. I should know, I can smell my own. When I was growing up, I terrorized my scout troop, trying to get a lot of attention. I still do it today, but the difference is that I don't break any code of ethics in doing it, and am completely polite about it. Back then, I believe at one time that I was suspened from the troop for improper use of fire. Now, I can look back on that time and realize that I was such a little punk, and thank the heavens that my leaders never lost their heads with me, otherwise I wouldn't be on this site today. I can see where suspeneding a kid from a troop can take the fuel away from the fire, so to say, but I don't think that completely removing someone from scouts and never allowing them to come back is ever the way to go. In the end, it all comes down to how far we are willing to go for our kids (not just our own).

-David

[OldGreyEagle]

My son, the renown YoungSpikedEagle, had his run in with scout bullies. YoungSpiked had his health problems and was so skinny I had to stand life guard when he took a shower least he wash down down the drain, and the thing about him having to have a flush toilet, well it wasnt as much the flush toilet as it was the running water put a big ol' X on his forehead as far as being a bully target. That and he and I stayed in the same tent for the first three years assured he would get picked on. Many times we discussed him quitting, but he stuck it out. He saw a red beret on Ebay and wanted it. I got it for him and he started to weat it. The two bullies were unmerciless in their ridicule, they taunted him, insulted him, did all they could but he wore the red beret with pride. In about 3 months the bullying had stopped and YoungSpiked was accepted because he wouldnt back down.

 

Bullies are hard to deal with, each kid is different, sometimes its a cry for attention and sometimes the kid is just a flegling sociopath. Sometimes the kid talking back is all it takes, other times a physical altercation is required to settle matters (never a first choice, but sometimes the only option)

[Sovremenny]

Unfortunately, I've been picked on and ridiculed for most of my life. Most of it comes from my past language barrier (I'm Chinese) while the rest comes from my past lack of coordination. Also some people did not like my intelligence. The first words I heard in the middle school was "Go home you f--king immigrant." I had no friends or anyone to go to until late high school. I ate lunch alone while people I can only describe using the a--hole word bothered me. Occasionally it became physical and I just succumbed to their demands. I was afraid of more trouble so I did not tell anyone what happened.

 

It continued into high school and people started to threaten me with violence. I was placed in a bad group for lab in chemistry and everyone gave me trouble while I worked. People told me that in high school people don't really care about this stuff so I didn't bother to ask for another group. I also developed a keen interest in world political affairs and military equipment so some people thought this would be the perfect chance to start a rumor. Once someone approached me asking me how to make bombs and what type of weapon would be best for murdering a groups of people. Also people started avoiding me, especially girls, while another group of girls tried to follow me with a video camera. Eventually I was called in with the assistant principal to talk about the rumor.

 

I longed to take revenge at these people, but I did not want to do it in the way those who did at Columbine as I still believed in myself having a very bright future. My grades were still good and I was still confident in myself.

 

I had enough so I told him about everything. I also told my parents the whole story and eventually we had the people who started it expelled. This made me feel very happy that I was actually doing something back. However, I wanted to get back at everyone who wronged me. One of them tried to grab my backpack so I grabbed his and tossed it in the garbage can. Later someone tried to push me so I pushed back and sent him falling down. Someone egged my house so the next time he came by I shot him with a toy gun.

 

I also made friends with a person with similar interests. He was one of the "tough guy" personallity and I helped him cheat on a chemistry tests. However, he kept future bullies from bothering me. I'm not especially proud of this part, but I had to end this. Furthermore, I picked up weight lifting which helped my physical ability.

 

Well here I am, not dead or in prison, but an engineering student at the University of Illinois. I try my best to put all this behind me, as many of these memories must be repressed or they will haunt me. Some people still believe that I'm a potential violent radical. I am not especially proud of the course of action I took, but I believe that it was the best for myself. I made the bullies feel that they were not invincible against me.

 

I hope your son can end this problem. I've been through it myself and sometimes still have bad dreams about it. But being able to personally end the bullying is the best way to end it, as it prevents future problems.

 

And now the one who called me the "f--ing immigrant" is in prison for assault while the others are still in my home town working low paying labor jobs as they did not get good enough grades to go to college.

 

To them:I win.

[FScouter]

Thank you for posting.